Evidence of meeting #18 for Medical Assistance in Dying in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was disorders.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Senator, Nova Scotia, ISG
Thank you very much, Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for helping us in these challenging deliberations.
My questions are for Dr. Kelleher. There will be three or four of them, but they require only very short answers.
You're here as a person with expert opinions about MAID. In your testimony, you alluded to a case in Canada.
The first question is this: Are you qualified as a MAID assessor and provider in Canada or in any other country?
Consultant Liaison Psychiatrist, Cork University Hospital, As an Individual
No, and in Ireland—
Senator, Nova Scotia, ISG
That's great. That's fine.
The other question is, how many MAID assessments have you participated in or seen or viewed or sat in on in Canada?
Consultant Liaison Psychiatrist, Cork University Hospital, As an Individual
I work in Ireland. I don't work in Canada.
Consultant Liaison Psychiatrist, Cork University Hospital, As an Individual
I haven't done any MAID assessments. I'm not qualified and that's not something I—
Senator, Nova Scotia, ISG
Okay. Do you know the protocol used for MAID in Canada, and specifically what medication they use, what doses, in what sequence and what the route of administration is?
Consultant Liaison Psychiatrist, Cork University Hospital, As an Individual
I have read up on that and I do understand some of the issues around that, yes.
Senator, Nova Scotia, ISG
Can you tell me, then, what the doses are and what medications are used, and in what sequence?
Consultant Liaison Psychiatrist, Cork University Hospital, As an Individual
I don't know what the doses are, but they're usually some barbitones.
Senator, Nova Scotia, ISG
Do you know of any Canadian data on the process of MAID provision and what happens to a person in the process of receiving MAID? Are you familiar with that data?
Consultant Liaison Psychiatrist, Cork University Hospital, As an Individual
I have read the protocol, but my concern about—
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.
Senator, Nova Scotia, ISG
—report you state:
techniques used to bring about death can themselves [result] in considerable and protracted suffering.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
One moment please, Senator Kutcher.
Go ahead on your point of order, Mr. Barrett.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
I'm just wondering if the practice at this committee is similar to that in other committees whereby witnesses are given an amount of time to answer the question that is equal to the amount of time required to pose the question. I appreciate that time is limited, but this is not typically a committee where expert witnesses can give yes-or-no answers to questions.
Liberal
The Joint Chair Liberal Marc Garneau
I believe that's argumentative. No, there is no rule about equal time for questions and answers. There are specific questions, and in some cases, the questioner is allowed to move on to the next question.
Please carry on, Senator Kutcher.
Senator, Nova Scotia, ISG
In your report, you write:
techniques used to bring about death can themselves [result] in considerable and protracted suffering.
Can you tell us on what information, in the Canadian context, you are basing the statement that someone who is receiving MAID will actually, because of MAID, have “considerable and protracted suffering”?
Consultant Liaison Psychiatrist, Cork University Hospital, As an Individual
Can I ask exactly what you're quoting from?
Senator, Nova Scotia, ISG
The quote is from this document that was provided to us.
Consultant Liaison Psychiatrist, Cork University Hospital, As an Individual
I'm so sorry. What exactly are you quoting me from? I don't recognize what you just held up there.
Senator, Nova Scotia, ISG
We all have a copy of this. It's a position paper on physician-assisted suicide and euthanasia from the College of Psychiatrists of Ireland. It says, “Consultant Liaison Psychiatrist Dr Eric Kelleher...Speaking today, he said...”
Consultant Liaison Psychiatrist, Cork University Hospital, As an Individual
What we are concerned about—and this was in our college's position paper—is that in Ireland—again, this echoes other speakers who have spoken before—access to palliative care is limited throughout the country. We do not have immediate access to things like hospices and the provision of palliative care, as I said.
What I do as a liaison psychiatrist, working co-jointly with our colleagues in palliative care.... Providing mental health care to patients with mental illness isn't easily available in different parts of the country. Having access to all treatment alleviates distress for somebody who has a terminal illness and who is dying. It's something that we, as the college, believe should be easily provided for.
It isn't something that is available. That's what our concerns were.
Liberal