National Defence Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2006

[Col M.D. Capstick]

Okay, sir, I'll try. I guess I'll start with the first one.

I'm obviously a biased responder to this. This team was based on an idea. What do I think of using military planners in this kind of role? A plan is a plan is a plan. We have a very rigorous professional development system, such that from the day you're a young officer cadet, whether army, navy, or air force, you learn how to plan. That's what we do: we plan, we plan, we plan.

Why use military officers? Well, part of the problem is—I don't know whether it's a problem, but the reality is—that most government departments have just enough people to fill the seats in their headquarters. We are far less expensive than hiring international consultants. I could be a little bit cynical and talk about the number of $1,000 U.S. to $2,000 U.S. a day tax-free consultants walking around Kabul and producing not so much. If you've been to Kabul, you will have seen them.

Military people show up for work. Our people have a unique ability to adapt and be flexible and build confidence with the Afghans. In essence, we're the only department that can generate the number of people required on a continual rotational basis. If you go to another department and tell them, we're going to rip 15 people out of your hide and send them to Kabul...oh, man! And they may not have had the professional development and training.

To clarify it, for your second question, the bilateral arrangement is between Canada and Afghanistan. My relationship with ISAF and with the U.S. coalition was one of cooperation. I had instructions from General Hillier to provide them with whatever support possible.

That said, the fact that we were a purely Canadian Afghan operation opened doors and caused a very rapid level of trust to be developed. I think that was attributable to a couple of things. The first is Canada's reputation in Kabul as a good citizen in the international community, for want of a better word—I don't have a phrase for that—and secondly, the reputation that was built up by senior Canadians who had been through there over time: our then-ambassador, who's now a deputy special representative of the Secretary General in the UN mission in Kabul, Chris Alexander; Nipa Banerjee, from CIDA; and both General Leslie first, as Deputy Commander ISAF, and then General Hillier, as Commander ISAF.

And I'm about to retire, so I don't have to kiss up to any of them.

Quite frankly, those three or four names opened doors all over Kabul. They understood that I wasn't there on behalf of either of those two headquarters trying to push this agenda. To be very clear, ISAF is not in charge of Afghanistan, and NATO is not in charge of Afghanistan; the democratically elected government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan is in charge of Afghanistan.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We're going to have to stop you there. I'm sorry, we're out of time.

Ms. Black, then it's over to Mr. Calkins.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you very much for your presentation. There was a lot in there. I tried to write down some of the figures and things, but I'm sure we'll get them in the transcript.

You talked about, I think you said, “grinding poverty, and illiteracy, and horrible infant mortality rates”. This morning I met with a group that's working on the ground in Afghanistan, in Kandahar. They showed me photographs of malnourished and starving children who are living right in the city of Kandahar, right in the camps there. I found it very disturbing, and I think it must be very hard for the men and women of the Canadian military to see this.

I'm wondering why the aid is not getting through to them. They're living in Kandahar city. Is there not a way to funnel the aid through an organization like the Red Crescent that can get the food that's needed to these children who are starving?

[Col M.D. Capstick]

I wish I could give you a sufficient answer to this, but I really can't, because my team's focus was at the national and strategic level. We weren't on the ground in Kandahar. Security's probably the—

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm sure it is, but there must be a way through.

[Col M.D. Capstick]

And again, you'd have to....

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Okay.

One of the reports that came out last week said that teenage security people are being hired, then given an AK-47 with ten days of training. The way I read the report it seemed to indicate that they would have some responsibility for providing security for some of the men and women of the Canadian Forces who are working to build this road in southern Afghanistan in Kandahar.

I found that very troubling. I'm wondering, what are our obligations internationally in terms of child soldiers? I have two sons who are in the police department. They went through nine months of training. I know you can't compare Canada to Afghanistan. However, I find this very troubling: ten days of training and automatic weapons to provide some kind of security.

I understand what you've said about the Afghan police. I know a great deal needs to be done, but is this any kind of a solution to encourage that?

[Col M.D. Capstick]

The group you're referring to are auxiliary police. They are from the national level, a response to a need to enhance the amount of Afghan local security that's available. I shouldn't speak for them, but I know them.

There's not a professional Canadian officer or senior non-commissioned officer who is going to put the lives of his or her troops in the hands of untrained young people with AK-47s. We look after ourselves, we defend ourselves, and that's the way it is. So hopefully that will up the confidence level.

In terms of the international convention, this happened after it was under discussion, when I was in Kabul. Whether or not they're under 18 years of age, I don't know the answer to that question. But they are an Afghan government organization, and they're under the control of the Afghan national police, we hope.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, that's a bit worrying.

[Col M.D. Capstick]

No, they are an auxiliary police force.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I know you talked about the Afghanistan Compact, and I believe you had some participation in it and the ANDS. I'm wondering how far along we are in that process. I know you can speak more to the country as a whole, but what is happening in Kandahar through this process? Is anything happening at this point, or is the security just not at the stage where they're able to...?

[Col M.D. Capstick]

The compact is the political deal between the world community and the Afghans, sanctioned by the UN, so it's hard to say in any particular province. But ANDS is the comprehensive plan. There are programs, which are part of ANDS, that are being moved into Kandahar, Helmand, Oruzgan, and those other provinces, as the security situation permits.

For example, one of the programs three to four layers down in the Afghanistan national development strategy is the national solidarity program, run by the Ministry of Rural Rehabilitation and Development. One of the main parts of that program is setting up community development councils from the village level up. I think community development councils are being established in somewhere between 400 and 500 villages in Kandahar, because not all of Kandahar or Helmand province is in the middle of a firefight every day. These are in districts, and in Kandahar there are 40-something districts. It's a pretty chopped-up political arrangement.

So the short answer is yes.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

You mentioned figures, and I want to make sure I have them right. You said $649 U.S. was spent on post-conflict aid in Bosnia right away—

[Col M.D. Capstick]

Per capita.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

And only $57...?

[Col M.D. Capstick]

Correct. That's internationally, and those dollars are from the Century Foundation.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Yet for Canada, Afghanistan is the largest recipient of foreign aid.

[Col M.D. Capstick]

Correct.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Which countries aren't pulling their fair share, in terms of reconstruction?

[Col M.D. Capstick]

I can't do that.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

No?

[Col M.D. Capstick]

It would be hard for us to know. We were working as the mechanics on this thing, okay?

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

It's shocking, those figures.

[Col M.D. Capstick]

We didn't have day-to day-control over anybody's dollars or even insight into anybody's dollars. But they're there, and.... We'll put the researchers to work.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm wondering if you could help the committee, in terms of what's happening along the Pakistan border and the counter-insurgents who are coming back and forth across that border. What advice would you give to this committee, in terms of pursuing that, or what are your thoughts about it?