National Defence Committee on Nov. 8th, 2006

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

We have 15 trainers at the Kabul Military Training Centre. Recruits receive their core military training at the centre before being transferred to Kandahar, to the south, the east, the north or the west of the country. It's at this point that the our famous OMLT start working with these soldiers.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Is that it, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

You're right on time.

Ms. Black, and then Mr. Hiebert.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, General Gauthier, for spending the time with us today and for your very thorough presentation.

I have a few questions that I would like to ask you. One of them you touched on a bit in your presentation, in that Canadians originally went in with Operation Enduring Freedom and now we're with ISAF. I'm wondering how, or if, we are still in contact with OEF. Is there any way that we are? Are they operating in the same area? Do we interact with them in any way, or do we conduct any operations jointly with OEF?

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

Without getting into specific operational details, if you'll permit me that, Madam, the Afghan national security force capacity-building piece of the U.S. contribution is also part of Operation Enduring Freedom. The 15-person training detachment that we have at the Kabul military training centre is actually operating under Operation Enduring Freedom.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

But not in Kandahar.

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

It's not an ISAF function.

We have a number of embedded individuals in this command, Combined Security Transition Command, which is investing billions of dollars in building the Afghan National Army and building the Afghan National Police. We have Canadian military involved in that headquarters, and we will soon have some RCMP officers who will be part of that also. Technically, they will be part of Operation Enduring Freedom.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Are we doing combat operations with Operation Enduring Freedom?

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

In the south of Afghanistan and in the east of Afghanistan there are Operation Enduring Freedom elements who are conducting operations that could be outside of the ISAF mandate. Those are being done with full visibility, full coordination, with commanders down the chain of command. Cooperation is actually very good.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

I have some questions around the provincial reconstruction teams, the PRTs. In Kandahar, do they have any interaction with international NGOs?

I've been told that many of the NGOs have left the area, that they don't want to operate in Kandahar. They have a number of concerns, not only security concerns, but also the NGOs have told me they have a concern around the militarization of aid and development. So I want to know whether we have any connections with any NGOs there.

Does our PRT team connect with the larger network of PRT teams in other provinces in Afghanistan?

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

There is a provincial reconstruction team, to answer your last question first. There is a management structure, a management framework for provincial reconstruction teams with Afghan involvement. It used to be Operation Enduring Freedom involvement. Quite frankly, they might not be directly involved any more. Certainly there is ISAF involvement. All are at the table, with representatives of the PRTs regularly participating in meetings. So Afghans and those involved in the PRTs are converging or operating on converging access.

Your question about non-governmental organizations, international and otherwise--because there's a difference there also; there is local versus international. I will give you a superficial yes to that. I can't name the specific non-governmental organizations we are working with, but certainly we are working with NGOs.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Could you give that information to us later?

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

I suggest that would be a good question for you to ask when you get to Afghanistan and meet with the people from the PRT. They'll give you a very clear picture of that.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

We know that today the World Food Programme was again begging for money for Afghanistan. The hunger situation there and the lack of food getting through is a very serious problem.

Also, in talking to people who have been working on the ground in Afghanistan in other ways, they tell me that without improvement in the local economy and the opportunity for people to have a small business to improve their lives...they see that as the key thing in terms of building peace and security in Afghanistan.

You talked about something called quick impact projects. I am wondering what they are. You said they're going for approval. I am wondering if they have an economic base.

The other part of this question is.... The other thing I've been told by people in Afghanistan, and particularly in Kandahar province, is that there is favouritism or corruption even from the local authorities there and the local government in terms of who does get electricity through the diesel project, who gets the on and off electricity. That kind of thing is happening, not only in the delivery of electricity but in other ways.

I'm wondering what our role is in ensuring that there is a reduction in the corruption of delivery of services from the local government.

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

Those are all good questions to put to CIDA. They're issues that I certainly have spent hours on various visits discussing with the CIDA representative and others inside the PRT.

But that is part of CIDA's core business. We're focused on security. They do development in a sustainable long-term sense--

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

But you made your presentation in a three-D kind of way, so I thought--

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

But that's why I'm saying I'm confident they're going down the right track. They are concerned about corruption. They are concerned about building processes that are sustainable over time. That's a large part of what they do.

With respect to the World Food Programme and working with them, I can tell you that in the post-Operation Medusa timeframe, the PRT was directly involved with the World Food Programme. I can cite statistics, if you've not seen them previously. The PRT issued 10,388 family food packs in Zharey and Panjwai. This is in concert with the World Food Programme--542 of them in the week of October 22 alone.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

But we're told there are 100,000 displaced people in Afghanistan not getting food--

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Ms. Black, your time is up.

Mr. Hiebert, seven minutes.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, as parliamentary secretary to the Minister of National Defence, I want to congratulate you on your recent appointment to the Order of Military Merit, which was created to recognize meritorious service and devotion to duty. You must be very proud of what you've accomplished, and we are very proud of what you've accomplished. I know that my colleagues congratulate you and thank you for your service to Canada.

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

Thank you.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

My first question has to do with what we've accomplished during Operation Medusa. In broad terms, could you just outline for us what we've achieved in that particular mission?

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

Pre-Operation Medusa, we had a situation where many of those opposed to the Government of Afghanistan and determined in growing numbers to wrench power from legitimate authorities began to appear in the Panjwai-Zharey area. Through the early days, as we saw that evolving, our forces came under attack.

As you have heard already, there was evidence of a significant presence, to the point where a very large number of Taliban adopted a more conventional approach as compared with the earlier insurgent tactics they had adopted. They effectively, forcefully, evicted thousands of residents of the area and left them homeless, to fend for themselves. The situation deteriorated to the point where, from a military perspective, from a coalition perspective, and from an Afghan national perspective, something had to be done: (a) to demonstrate ISAF resolve, and (b) to demonstrate to the people of Afghanistan that we were prepared to fight on their behalf to support them. The results of Operation Medusa, from a military perspective, have been well-reported in the media.

Since then, what we have seen certainly through a particular sector is a large swath in which there are now Canadian Forces personnel and Afghanistan national security forces. There is a humanitarian focus; there is the possibility of reconstruction. I could cite the same figures I cited earlier--100,000 metres of irrigation ditches cleaned and done. There's Route Summit, which will open the region to commerce. What you should see in the coming weeks and months, I would hope, is the PRT and Region South reporting very positively on concrete projects and results they have been able to achieve as a result of the successes in Operation Medusa.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

All right.

A second and final question from me, and then I'll pass the remainder of my time to my colleague. What are the biggest challenges you're facing in the field in terms of being able to achieve the strategic objectives?

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

What are the biggest challenges we are facing? I think the first challenge actually is from a Canadian whole-of-government perspective. This is our first experience collectively, the Department of Foreign Affairs, CIDA, police forces, the RCMP, and there are other government departments involved as well, engaged in a concerted, relatively coherent approach to stabilizing, securing, reconstructing, and developing in an active war zone, which is effectively what we have in the south of Afghanistan right now.

There are many challenges with that. We learn with every day that passes. We learn about each other to speak the same language. We've learned about the bridge that needs to be built between longer-term development requirements and nearer-term reconstruction requirements, and the connection between both of those and the need for a secure environment.

From a three-D perspective or a whole-of-government perspective, there are challenges, but I think there are honestly more opportunities than there are challenges. What we're doing right now in Afghanistan, what we're experiencing in Afghanistan, is trail blazing, and it will serve us well in the future wherever else the Government of Canada chooses to project its influence and its forces around the world.

One of the significant challenges we face there in the near term, because of where we have come from in the last four years, with a new nation and what Afghanistan has been through over the last four years, is we need to be focused on capacity building. At the same time as we're building capacity, we need to be able to do; we need to conduct our own security operations at the same time as we're trying to build an Afghan National Army and an Afghan National Police.

You can call it a challenge. We would tend to find it frustrating that those national institutions aren't progressing as quickly as we would like, but if you turn that around and consider where they were three years ago, the progress they've made is remarkable. But it is a challenge for us to, on the one hand, be focused on building capacity and, by the same token, be doing it ourselves. We would hope that over time we will see that balance shift in favour of the capacity building, less doing and more capacity building.