National Defence Committee on Nov. 8th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Mr. Bachand, you still have two and a half minutes, half of the time.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

You were probably asked this question when you appeared before the Senate committee. The National Defence Policy Statement sets out eight criteria which must be met before any international deployment. I'm not in a position to list these eight requirements. However, there are two requirements about which I am sure and on which I'd like your opinion. It is common practice before any deployment takes place for a number of criteria to be met, which was undoubtedly the case for you in the past when you have had to comply with the National Defence policy.

Once such requirement is a well-defined end state, as you say in English —, the other, a clear exit strategy.

Could you tell me whether these two criteria were taken into consideration prior to deployment? This is something I'd like to know.

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

From a purely military standpoint, our military campaign plan laid out a desirable end state. It doesn't necessarily apply to the Canadian Forces, but indicates, rather, at what stage the international forces may step down. The criterion specifically refers to the extent to which the Afghan National Security Forces become self-sufficient. From a military standpoint, as soon as the Afghan Army and the Afghan National Police Force are able to ensure the safety of their Afghan citizens, the international forces — not Canada, but the international forces — may leave Afghanistan.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

There's a problem there. The policy statement I'm referring to is the Canadian Policy Statement. I really doubt there would be a reference to eight international criteria in the Canadian Policy Statement. Rather, it would be eight Canadian criteria.

General, are these criteria public? Can the committee get its hands on them? Can you forward them to us or give us a hard copy? Can we have them? Do you need to call General Hillier first?

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

Probably, yes.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay. Would you call him for us?

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

Yes, we'll do so.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you, Mr. Bachand.

The rotation goes over to the Conservatives. I understand there's nobody there.

We'll go to the Liberal Party. Mr. Cannis.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

General, I just want to access your 33 years of service and experience in the military. You've obviously participated in other NATO initiatives. Am I correct?

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

Yes, sir, I have.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

We had the former Yugoslavia issue, and NATO was very active there. We didn't have interruptions or the questions that are being asked today.

I want to ask you, when we initially committed, under the three-D policy, two years of services--do you agree with me there? Canada committed to a two-year program. We committed our troops for two years.

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

Correct.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Correct.

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

I believe that's correct.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Yes, I believe it's correct as well.

In less than two or three months, we made the decision to extend it for two years. Can you recall, in your 33 years of experience, anything similar to that happening in other theatres that we have engaged in? That is under NATO, of course.

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

In all other operations I've been involved in, I've been at the deployed end, and I have concerned myself with the six-month window in which I was involved in the operation.

It's funny you should mention Yugoslavia, because I led the very first unit into Croatia on March 13, 1992. I remember it well. And we still have forces there--not to draw any parallels between one and the other.

I could not tell you one way or the other whether this is.... I would have to go back and look.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

But when you led—

[LGen J.C.M. Gauthier]

Governments make these decisions, so you're asking a soldier, again, to comment on whether the two-year horizon is or is not correct. I'm not in a position to comment on that.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

What I'm driving at, actually, General, is that NATO makes long-term plans. Let's be frank with each other. They don't plan what's going to happen tomorrow and address tomorrow what they're going to do in the future. We know very well, based on what little I know from these engagements, that commitments are made for the future.

We, as a country, made that commitment for two years. Would it not be an accurate statement for me to say that upon completion of our two years, there had to be a plan for somebody else to come in and fill in after we completed our two years? Would you not think that would be an accurate statement?

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Chairman, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

A point of order.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I think the guest has already indicated that this is a policy question, which is beyond his purview. I would ask that the member stick to questions that are within the realm of his expertise.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I'm accessing, Mr. Chair, his expertise on how NATO works.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

No, you're not. It's a policy question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

I appreciate the point of order, and your experience somewhat—