Evidence of meeting #23 for National Defence in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

A. J. Howard  Director General, Operations, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
Andrew Leslie  Chief of the Land Staff, Department of National Defence

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

I call the meeting to order.

This is the 23rd meeting of our deliberations on Afghanistan, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted Wednesday, October 4.

We're going to start today's meeting with a briefing on the status and progress of the Canadian involvement in Afghanistan. We have General Howard, director general of operations, Strategic Joint Staff.

Thank you, sir, for being here.

After we're done with General Howard, we'll move on to General Leslie, Chief of the Land Staff. We're looking forward to both of these presentations.

General, I'll turn it over to you. This is our second opportunity to be briefed on the operations. We're expecting to find out what happened from the last time we were briefed until this time. So hopefully that's the general direction we're going in.

The floor is yours.

3:30 p.m.

BGen A. J. Howard Director General, Operations, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence

Honourable members of Parliament, good afternoon. Bonjour à tous. I'm back again this afternoon to provide you with a short update of Canadian Forces operations in Afghanistan over these last few weeks. My presentation will focus on CF activities, and I'm certainly prepared to provide clarification on my presentation at the end if I can. Questions on the activities of other departments operating in Afghanistan are probably best addressed by them.

The Taliban insurrection remains, for the most part, concentrated in eastern and southern Afghanistan.

In Kandahar province, where Canadian troops operate, the Taliban over the last past months have attempted to re-establish a strong presence to the west of both Zhari and Panjwai districts and west of Kandahar city, and they are likely trying to rebuild their ability to defend areas in which they now operate. Recent Taliban attacks, such as IED attacks--improvised explosive device attacks--and ambushes against convoys moving along main routes, direct attacks against Canadian troops protecting the construction of Route Summit and those that are engaged in its actual construction--and I'll talk about Route Summit a bit further in a minute--and the killing of several prominent government officials and politicians in Kandahar point to a strategy that they're likely to carry out into the winter and whose aims are likely to, first, prevent any meaningful reconstruction or humanitarian assistance from taking place. Taliban attacks in Zhari district in particular continue to dissuade many locals from returning to their homes, while at the same time slowing down or impeding reconstruction.

Second, they'll attempt to prevent any meaningful interaction between the Canadian Forces that are located on the ground and the local population by making it difficult to hold shuras with local leaders and by forcing us to focus on force protection and preventing us from conducting more outreach activities.

Thirdly, they will attempt to undermine the perception that security in the city of Kandahar has improved following Operation Medusa, by conducting suicide attacks against vehicles in the town, killing more local leaders and continuing to carry out intimidation and threat campaigns throughout the city.

Elsewhere, in many rural areas where there is a strong Taliban presence, they will try to consolidate their hold over the population throughout the winter in order to defeat any attempts to spread the Government of Afghanistan influence. Weather in the Kandahar City area and along the Highway 1 corridor may impede Taliban activity over the winter months.

The next slide gives you a snapshot of the insurgent activity against coalition forces over the last two weeks. You'll note that there has been a reduction in the amount of Taliban activity, certainly in our area, in comparison to late summer and early fall, when Taliban activity was much higher.

As described in this slide, the types of attacks used by the Taliban are quite wide. Our recent defensive stance has forced the Taliban to use indirect fire attacks, such as rocket or mortar attacks, in order to engage us. Furthermore, they still demonstrate the knowledge and skills to mount improvised explosive device attacks as well. However, they have somewhat pulled back from conducting direct attacks using small arms and rocket-propelled grenades. Perhaps they want to prevent being fixed on the ground by our battle group, with its manoeuvrability and firepower.

To be sure, our presence in Kandahar province is essential if Afghanistan is to move forward. A steady and patient approach will demonstrate the resolve of the international community to make a difference. We are in Afghanistan to support the Afghan authorities and are determined to help them win the confidence of the people, so that a functional state can be built and the reign of terror by the Taliban can be neutralized. We certainly hope that all Taliban activity will reduce and that they will help to support the elected Afghan authorities. That's certainly our aim.

The next slide shows the current ISAF situation. The Commander ISAF's operational main effort remains in setting the conditions for the establishment and expansion of Afghan development zones. Certainly General Richards, along with all Regional Command commanders, is focused on this in order to make it a reality.

Perhaps I will spend a minute describing the Afghan development zone concept a bit further. The ADZ or Afghan development zone concept offers an excellent opportunity to bring together security, governance, and development in a timely and fully coordinated manner. The ADZs will establish regions that are sufficiently safe to allow a focus on reconstruction.

Commander Regional Command South's main effort is to develop the Kandahar City ADZ. This is being accomplished by establishing defined areas where development can be optimized through the maintenance of security. We will promote Afghan governance to initiate, prioritize, and execute development initiatives and projects to make a difference. We hope to stimulate the interests of other communities to embrace the concept and create a need.

Essentially, the ADZ concept is created as follows. First, security forces attempt to clear the area of insurgents. Secondly, they maintain a presence to ensure security of development projects by embedding security with the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Auxiliary Police, as well as ISAF, and by promoting a PRT presence. The PRT and other development agencies then roll out a concentrated spending on projects that have a key economic and social multiplier value, such as bridges, roads, wells, or clinics. ISAF offers a quick reaction capability to protect these ADZs against renewed insurgent activity. Lastly, ISAF continues to assist in the coordination of overall government–donor synchronization within the long-term government development strategy.

If you want to know what our troops are involved with today, that's what they're involved with, and that's what General Richards is focused on. The easiest example I can give you is that we want to create Kabuls, or a type of situation similar to what we have in Kabul, in the rest of the country. Kabul represents an excellent example of an ADZ where things are secure with some assistance from us. We definitely want to spread that across the country, and it is certainly what we will try within the Kandahar province, namely in Kandahar City.

This slide shows how the structure of the Canadian command, Afghan Regional Command South, has changed over the course of the mission. ISAF took over Regional Command South during Operation Enduring Freedom, implementing Stage 3 of the NATO expansion plan. Canada commanded Regional Command South between February and August 2006.

On 1 November 2006—not all that long ago—the ISAF Regional Command South command structure was modified as a result of the transition of command from Canadian to Netherlands lead. Joint Task Force Afghanistan used this opportunity to reorganize the command and control structure in order to gain unity of command, purpose, and effort under one Canadian commander. That commander is now Brigadier-General Tim Grant. He has been there approximately two weeks—since November 1—and is now the commander of the Canadian contingent. As you well know, Dutch Major-General Ton van Loon is now leading the Regional Command South headquarters. It's a Dutch lead. He has a Canadian as his chief of staff—a full colonel—and there are Canadians who are working within that headquarters.

In Regional Command South, the transfer of lead nation to the Dutch was successful. In Task Force Uruzgan, which is the Dutch–Australian team, framework ops, base construction, and security operations continue. Platoon patrols are being conducted in the vicinity of Dehrawudd and in the vicinity of Tirin Kot in order to establish an ADZ in that province. Under Task Force Helmand, the British continue operations throughout Helmand province to prevent insurgent infiltration. Task Force Zabul, which is composed of our U.S. and Romanian colleagues, currently continues its framework patrols and convoy escort duties along Highway 1, and Qalat has been formally declared as their ADZ in that particular province.

There has been no significant change to the 1 RCR Battle Group force disposition over the past couple of weeks. CO 1 RCR Battle Group's main effort continues to be the provision of security with the Afghan National Security partners throughout the Zhari and Panjwai area in order to contribute to the establishment of the Kandahar ADZ. Of note, November 3 saw the first graduation of 41 Afghan National Auxiliary Police—ANAP—candidates destined to go into the Panjwai–Zhari area.

The PRT opened the Sham-e-Dinkkar Middle School, located across from the Provincial Development Centre in Bazaar-e-Panjwayi. In addition, the PRT hosted a series of VIP visits, including the Chief of the Land Staff, the president of CIDA, the deputy clerk of the Privy Council, and the Canadian Ambassador to the UAE.

The observer mentoring and liaison team, some 64 personnel, continued its training program and liaison duties between the battle group and those Afghan battalions, known as kandaks, deployed in the Zhari–Panjwai area.

The PRT has now completed 18 of 35 planned projects. The PRT has assisted in the distribution of food, water, blankets, and tents throughout the Panjwai region. DND funding in this regard, in the form of a commander's contingency fund, CCF, has been increased to over $3 million, which is indeed a very good trend. Yes, the figure is different from the last time I was here, but as the demand from the field increases for more projects, they're certainly considered here and then more money is assigned if they make sense. As I say, I think this is a positive trend, because these are reconstruction efforts.

Family food packages are designed to provide 2,000 calories a day for six people for a month. That's the size of the food packages we're delivering, and we have delivered over 10,000 of these packages. General Gauthier mentioned that when he was with you last week.

In the Province of Kandahar, over the past six weeks four medical visits to villages have been arranged in conjunction with the tactical group. Over 2,000 Afghans in the outlying regions of Panjwaii and Mienishin have received basic medical care and drugs.

In partnership with the Afghan Minister of Health, local physicians and dentists have provided care to the people of the region. In addition, drugs, tools, school supplies, food, blankets, toys, carpets and radios have been distributed.

The Provincial Reconstruction Team has provided over 100 diagnostic kits to the Mirwais nursing school, in the city of Kandahar, where nursing students recently began their studies in October 2006.

On the next slide, let me draw your attention to the Afghan National Auxiliary Police growth in Kandahar province. Again, this is a small step that will hopefully lead to bigger ones in the future.

The next slide gives you a good overview of the types of assistance and work that the PRT is accomplishing: the key leader engagements, or shuras, with local officials; the food packages and food carts that we've distributed over the last week—and you can see the cumulative totals in the right-hand column; non-food aid packages distributed, such as blankets and the like; and some of the Afghan National Auxiliary Police training that's ongoing—and the screening and mentoring of these individuals with the RCMP and our own Canadian military police is a core piece of the training that these auxiliary police receive.

Village shura damage lists have been worked on over time, not in this particular week, but there are 227 claims. That's a case of the CIMIC officers getting out and about in the Kandahar province and talking to local officials, the elders within tribes and within the various villages.

Quick Reaction Force patrols are dispatched by the PRT to assist the Afghan authority, and you can see the number of presence patrols that we conduct to give local folks in Kandahar province some measure of comfort by our presence. It gives you a good sense of what has been accomplished, certainly over the last week, and I hope to report on that regularly when I come to see you.

I had a complete slide here to discuss Route Summit, but I think General Gauthier was here recently and described it. Maybe I'll cut down on the presentation by simply saying that the efforts to date include identifying the donors and doing all the infrastructure planning. The arrow points to where the route is actually going in in Kandahar City, just a little bit further to the right on the slide. The reconnaissance and land clearance are certainly under way and we're well advanced on them.

We all hope to see progress in the weeks ahead. I know General Leslie was actually staring at Route Summit last week. Over the last few days, it has actually been raining very heavily in Afghanistan. Flooding in excessive amounts makes the road almost impassable. And you've read in the papers about the conditions of talcum dust from the desert. So it has been extremely difficult for us to do any work this week, but we're quite hopeful that this highway will get built over the weeks to come.

Route Summit will demonstrate a major investment project that can change the livelihoods of local communities by ensuring the transfer of goods between Kandahar and the Zhari–Panjwai communities. It should reduce travel time by allowing the locals to travel a paved surface. We will certainly be focused on that over the next several weeks and months ahead.

I thought you would find this next slide useful, to see where our Canadian Forces personnel involved in Afghanistan, who number just over 2,400, are currently deployed, certainly in Kandahar and supporting those in Kandahar, and then within Kabul itself.

Let me conclude by saying that you'll be happy to know that the Nyala, the RG-31, is in full use in Afghanistan with the Canadian Forces. The RG-31 has a mine-resistant hull and lightly armoured sides. The steel hull protects against rifle-calibre bullets, but more importantly, against mines and IEDs. RG-31s are large vehicles. They look like SUVs, but this vehicle does dwarf the G-Wagon in size.

As observed earlier, the Taliban have demonstrated both the will and the knowledge to use improvised explosive devices against the coalition. We've had to adapt in order to maintain the initiative and protect our troops by increasing our RG-31 fleet.

You can never completely defend against an explosive payload, as a bigger one can always be constructed. However, we believe we've mitigated a vulnerability. Again, this is a great example of very quick adaptability in getting the front-line soldiers some vehicles to conduct their duties a little more safely.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes my update.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

Thank you very much, General. We appreciate that. I'm sure there will be some questions.

I want to advise the committee that next we have General Leslie, Chief of the Land Staff, and this week we have the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Chief of the Air Staff, and Chief of the Navy. We certainly have the high level of people who I'm sure will be able to respond to most of our questions.

Let's just remember this presentation was a briefing, and let's keep it to what happened over the last two weeks in Afghanistan.

Go ahead.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Thank you, General, once again, for being with us.

Talking about the Route Summit, or ambush alley, as it's called in the newspapers, you've given us some information that is at variance with what was reported in the Ottawa Citizen today. It says that Afghan army personnel have gone home due to Ramadan or other reasons, that they have been at it for a long time and they need to leave at some point, and that construction work has been halted for security reasons. In fact, one of the officers has been quoted as saying, “What they are doing now is preventing outright defeat”.

I would like you to explain that comment. What does that say to you? Is the Ottawa Citizen article totally incorrect today?

3:50 p.m.

Director General, Operations, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence

BGen A. J. Howard

Thank you very much for your question.

We certainly have had challenges over the last several weeks with building up our Afghan national security partners in the south. Indeed, Ramadan was an issue. I mean, young local Afghans join the Afghan National Army. They number some 30,000 now. They are very brave souls, and they work particularly hard. Several weeks ago, we as Canadians asked our Afghan colleagues--governmental officials--if they would increase the number of Afghans who work down south with us. They certainly answered our call right away.

What that article refers to is this. About two or three weeks ago, one of the Afghan National Army battalions did have to leave. They had come from Helmand province; they returned to Helmand province. It left us with a bit of a gap. I'm happy to report that gap has now been filled. We have some 300 or 400 Afghan National Army soldiers with us in the south. That situation is improving.

I will not deny that the Taliban absolutely do not want to see this road constructed. That's why we're busily fortifying positions along that particular road, to enhance security. “Ambush alley” is actually a term that has been used for many segments of highways in Afghanistan. When we first arrived at Kandahar airfield, the stretch of road from the airfield to the city was known as ambush alley. We lost some soldiers along that route.

Indeed, the sentiment from two or three weeks ago is correct. This is a game of patience. It really is. We are under a challenge there; there is no doubt about it. But we are determined to put this route in.

Certainly this week you wouldn't see any construction, because you really need a boat to be able to traverse, not wheeled vehicles. The mud is quite thick. I'm a little more optimistic--not to dispute the captain who is at the front edge at a place and time. I think it points to some of the challenges we're having.

I do expect to see progress in the weeks and months ahead. It's important that we put this road in. It's an area that we've been operating in, and it will improve the conditions for locals.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

I have just one more question.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

You have time for one short one.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Yes, it will be very short.

You've talked about the ADZ concept. That seems to be new. Has there been a shift in the last two weeks, under General Van Loon's command, in the focus of the mission? Obviously you didn't report on the ADZ concept in the last briefing. I'm assuming this is something entirely new.

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Operations, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence

BGen A. J. Howard

No, sir. As long as I have been working on the desk in NDHQ--and that has been since I arrived in the summer--the ADZ concept has been briefed and in progress. This has taken a while to put together. It comes from Commander ISAF General Richards and is certainly something that General Fraser was working away on.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

Good. Thank you very much.

Mr. Bachand.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The last time we met, General, we asked you to send us a list of the 26 projects you cited. That was two weeks ago, and we have still not received the list. Could you please have it forwarded to us within the next few days?

I met General Richards when I was in Afghanistan. He talked about "ink blots," an expression I rather liked. Do they reflect the same principle as the ADZs you mentioned? Are we starting small, making blots of ink that then spread to the surrounding areas? I find the principle an interesting one.

I would also like to know whether General Jones of the US Army is still playing a role in Afghanistan, or whether US forces are now under the command of General Richards, who commands all NATO forces. The Senlis Council, a British group, said that children were dying of hunger. Yet you tell us that a large number of food packages have been distributed. Were they distributed very recently?

Lastly, I would like you to comment on remarks made by the British, who are very involved in training.They said the Afghan army would not be ready for ten years. According to your figures, I see that 178 individuals are in training and 125 have graduated. At this rate, I don't see how the Afghan army is to become operational and relieve the pressure on NATO troops.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

Could we have short responses?

3:55 p.m.

Director General, Operations, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence

BGen A. J. Howard

I will do my best with that list you've given me.

The development of the Afghan National Army, I think, is viewed by everybody as a long process. The year 2010 is when we hope to have a functional Afghan National Army, so it will take a lot of patience and several years.

Certainly the delivery of food aid is something we have been doing from the beginning. The minister made the pledge last week, as have all of us, that if there are specific locations where we know assistance is required, we will certainly look into them. But the delivery of food aid packages has been going on, certainly, for some time.

General Jones is SAC here. And yes, ISAF is a NATO mission. There are some 36 countries and partners involved with it. It is a UN-mandated mission. The Operation Enduring Freedom is an American-led mission, and of course we made the transition out of OEF into ISAF. General Gauthier described to you some of the individuals who remained and were helping do the training centre in Kabul and other such things from there. But it's General Richards and his bosses in Brussels who call the shots in ISAF. Certainly we work at the UN to discuss this entire mission.

As for the 26 projects, you have my apologies. Please leave this with me. I'm energized now, since you've asked. You won't have to ask again. This is my commitment to you. I will certainly work away at that.

The ADZ concept is really about trying to move into an area where there's a large population base, if we can secure that, as opposed to going all over the country and being rather spread out and dispersed. If we go to one area and we can have success...and we can if you concentrate. If the military is working in a secure environment, and the developmental folks, both Canadian and international, can move into that area and begin to help the individuals, our hope is that those outside the ADZ will actually look in and say, “Boy, that looks good,” and that this will take its own course, kind of like an ink blot that spreads out a little bit. That's what we're going to try. That's what the NATO concept is. And I'm being very crude and simplistic here. But certainly we're going to try to reinforce and pile on where we can have success.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rick Casson

Very good, thank you. Perfect timing.

Ms. Black.

4 p.m.

NDP

Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming back again. It's good to get the update. I have three questions.

I questioned you on this last time. You talked about the Afghan auxiliary police, and the only information I had seen about this was through the media, who said it was a 10-day training program for young Afghans. Could you give us some assurances that it's more than that for the Afghan auxiliary police? Ten days isn't much in terms of training people to be acting as police officers.

The other question Ujjal or Claude touched on was on the family food packets, and you indicated that over 10,000 had been distributed. I wanted to ask you about the appropriateness of the food. Does it fit with the religious aspects of the community, of the nation and cultural traditions? What is in the food packages?

My last question is this. You talked about clearing explosives, and I'm wondering what kind of explosives. You gave numbers and I didn't get them down. The slide changed before I got the clearing out of explosives. Are some of these old land mines that were left behind by the Russians or are they all explosives planted by the Taliban? It seems to me you talked about over 100 that had been cleared, so could you expand upon that, please.

4 p.m.

Director General, Operations, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence

BGen A. J. Howard

Certainly. Let me start with your last question first.

We have engineers in theatre who are highly capable of ensuring our own mobility by dealing with unexploded ordnance, so the natures of explosives that have been cleared.... We also do this to help the local community, as individuals point and say, for example, we know there's a mine there, can you help us? Or these little wires sticking out of the ground look like an IED, or a leftover mortar bomb or an artillery round is lying in the open. This is something we can deal with quite easily. Those are the types of the explosives we have found on the ground.

4 p.m.

NDP

Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

Are some of them leftover Russian land mines?

4 p.m.

Director General, Operations, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence

BGen A. J. Howard

Most certainly there is some of that. Afghanistan is one of the most heavily mined areas left dirty, if you will. It's a reason we've had anti-personnel land mine treaties and the like, because people leave this stuff behind. Not only does it impede local civilians, it's also a great danger to the Canadian troops.

Your first question then, if I may, was about the Afghan National Auxiliary Police. There is no intention, as I understand it, for them to do the same levels of activity as a normal policeman would. We have similar differences in this country with full-fledged police, but you also have, for example, traffic police and the like. So the Afghan National Auxiliary Police will do less than full police duties. Obviously you cannot bring them up to the same level of professionalism with a 10-day training period. They can't do the investigative work, for example. So you have to employ them understanding their capabilities.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

So it is 10 days?

4:05 p.m.

Director General, Operations, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence

BGen A. J. Howard

Very short duration. I'd hate to stay stuck on 10 days, because it would depend on the class, but generally speaking, it's 10 to 14 days. This is done under the supervision of the RCMP and our PEI constable and the PRT and the MP platoon. We have an MP platoon we've deployed to do that as well. They monitor and supervise this training. We don't allow anybody under 18, although it's sometimes hard to tell, but that's what we're aiming at. So it's not young youth. It is the same age as you would join the police. For a more limited role, we can increase the number of security forces, and it's very much an interim step.

We didn't want to do this, I have to be honest with you, but it is a bit of a bridging step to creating a more stable and long-term police force.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

And the food?

4:05 p.m.

BGen A.J. Howard

I have to tell you I will assume the food packages are culturally sensitive. They'd have to be. But let me get you a better answer. I'll bring that back next time and I'll give you an example of what's in the food pack.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

The reason I ask is that I met with some Afghan people in my riding last week while we were on break. They told me food had been distributed that was not halal food, and I'm just hoping that's not the case with this.

4:05 p.m.

Director General, Operations, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence

BGen A. J. Howard

We have a great PRT. The commander is an outstanding individual, so I'd be very surprised by that. But let me check.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you.