National Defence Committee on Dec. 12th, 2006

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I understand that, madame, but my question is, has any village council indicated to CIDA that the priority is a health clinic or a police station?

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

With your permission, I will give the floor to the director general, who will give you more details on the specific projects of the communities.

[Philip Baker, Director General, Afghanistan Division, Canadian International Development Agency]

As to the question about police stations, we have to keep in mind that the team within the PRT is made up of more than CIDA. We have Foreign Affairs colleagues, diplomats. We have RCMP officers based there as well, along with Canadian Forces officers and soldiers.

This team works together with an appropriate division of labour across the whole stream of possible projects to be done in Kandahar. In this case, policing and substations, for example, are a particular focus of the Canadian Forces and the RCMP officers and Foreign Affairs, working together through the global peace and security fund, another source of funding for the PRT.

So they are funding and constructing substations for police in various communities.

On the clinic side of the question, each village will create its list of priorities, and at the moment there has not been an explicit request for a clinic. But we do anticipate those will be coming through in the next wave.

So we do expect that in the near future CIDA will be funding the creation of clinics in some villages, according to their requests.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Very good. Thank you. That's right on time.

Now on to the Bloc for 10 minutes.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will share my time with my colleague.

Good morning, Madam Minister. First, let me say that CIDA is doing good and even excellent work in Afghanistan. I know the people who work for CIDA, and they are indefatigable workers. As far as we are concerned, we must make sure that the projects are properly targeted. And this is what I want to ask you about.

First, in your notes, you spoke a great deal about Kandahar and very little about what is being done in the rest of Afghanistan. Might I know why?

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Kandahar is Afghanistan's most unstable region. We have committed $100 million a year for Afghanistan as a whole. As I said in my presentation, it is important to stabilize the Kandahar region so that we can make progress there as visibly as is being done in the rest of Afghanistan. Of course, we continue supporting programs all over Afghanistan, as I said in my presentation, because the rest of Afghanistan must not become unstable while we are focusing on Kandahar.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

The reason why I asked you that question, Madam Minister, is because in another committee on which I sit, we received several witnesses—I say several, because there were more than four, and I could give you their names—who came to tell us that the presence of warlords in the other regions of Afghanistan is causing problems. These warlords, who have often been put in power by Canada, allow corruption to go on. I am not criticizing Canada for this. This is probably because no one else was available there.

Also, women, among others, came to tell us that there was still no justice in Afghanistan. Corruption and insecurity are destroying the system. They came to tell us that Hamid Karzaï's government, although it has given some freedom to the media, newspapers and magazines in the country, has nonetheless instructed the media on the way they must deal with subjects of national interest, and that the media that did not comply received threats right from Hamid Karzaï's government.

We have two or three problems with regard to this: there is no justice yet, there is corruption and democracy has hardly even taken root. On the other hand, I think that CIDA—I have the entire list of your projects—is trying to work with the local people to ensure greater justice, less corruption and more democracy.

This is why I asked you that question. Why are you only telling me about Kandahar? Of course, that is where you went, and we also saw the photographs. But what is happening elsewhere? What is CIDA doing in the rest of Afghanistan to help the people and prevent the Taliban from coming back to power?

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

This is a big question and it requires big answers from several points of view.

CIDA is continuing its work with its partners all over Afghanistan. You made special mention of women's rights, etc. You are probably quite aware of the work being done by Rights and Democracy, for instance, a Montreal organization that has trained several thousand women with regard to their rights, that has opened shelters for women in Afghanistan. You have the list of projects that we announced, which includes literacy projects for women, professional education, aid through microcredit so that they can take control of their own future—I witnessed this when I went there in October—especially in agriculture, so that they can receive training and help for cultivating small gardens, to be able to sell their fruits and vegetables and increase their revenue.

I also informed you that recently, in Montreal, we had the opportunity to receive two journalists at the UQAM, two new Afghan women reporters who, thanks to the programs we are funding, have been trained as journalists. They presented a video on how women's rights have evolved since 2001.

Is there much work left to do? Absolutely, madam, there is a great deal of work left to do. As I said in my presentation, this country has been at war for over 25 years. Women have literally been terrorized. Yes, there is work underway to ensure that women will take their future in hand. Let me also inform you that 27% of members in the Afghan Parliament are women.

I do not know if I've covered your entire question.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Not quite.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

If there is any information missing, tell me, because your question had several parts to it.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I will now let my colleague continue.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome, Madam Minister.

Some witnesses came before this committee and spoke of a crisis, of famine, of families that do not have resources to buy food. As I listened to your testimony, everything seemed to be fine—even very encouraging—and there is progress.

Do you share the point of view of those witnesses with regard to a real food crisis in Afghanistan, or at least in certain regions?

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

In fact, on October 23, we announced some emergency food aid, for the Kandahar region among other regions. We are following the people's needs very closely. As our programs are refined, we are present with our partners to help the people and to meet urgent needs. That is what we are doing.

I would like to come back to your statements, honourable member, regarding the fact that from our point of view, everything seems fine and dandy. That is not what we are saying; we are saying that progress is being made. That is the reason why we must stay on and continue to help the Afghan population that desires to take its own affairs in hand and to live in freedom, democracy and security.

This is, in fact, the reason why the Canadian government announced that it would be giving more funds to reconstruction. We did this last May, and this why we extended our aid program, our commitment until 2011.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you.

You mentioned that CIDA was committed to working together with the communities. Each community must set its own priorities and make its own choices.

How would you describe the interest the Afghan people are showing, their participation? Is it passive, or it is dynamic?

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

As I mentioned, there are more than 8,100 projects in Afghanistan, and this certainly shows that the population is interested in taking its own affairs in hand. Moreover, when we evaluate our success, we notice that less than 1% of our projects have been destroyed by the Taliban.

When we work together with the local community, it means that the community has come to a consensus and defined its own project. Therefore it owns the project and it protects it with considerable pride. This is what will ensure the success of operations and yield concrete results for the people. Requests are being made.

Minister Zia came to Canada last week. I spoke to him on Friday. The programs are popular. The people see concrete results and see that they can take their own future in hand, but above all, they see immediate results.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard.

Ms. Black.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Minister, for your presentation this morning and for taking the time to come and brief the defence committee. We appreciate your doing that.

At recent updates that we've had from the Department of National Defence, and also from other witnesses, they've come and shown us slides of people who were obviously starving, children who were starving, on the outskirts of Kandahar City. Also, the department showed us slides of horrible flooding that seems to have impeded a lot of the work that was going on by Canadians in Afghanistan. I wonder if you could give us any details right now in terms of specific numbers, the number of internally displaced people in the camps outside Kandahar and the number of people who are in desperate need of food aid.

Further to that, I'm curious about who in the camps for the internally displaced is providing the assistance for those people. Is it NGOs? Is it multilateral groups? Is it CIDA specifically?

We've also heard from witnesses who've appeared at this committee about a real concern that NGOs have with the militarization of aid. They've expressed very strong concerns about that. So which NGOs are working on the ground in Kandahar right now? Is CIDA having difficulty finding partners to work with, other NGOs to work with CIDA?

The last question I have along this vein is, how are the other countries doing in terms of living up to the commitments they made in Bonn, and do you have a comparison of how other nations are doing in relation to how Canada is doing in living up to the Bonn commitments?

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you for your question.

I will let the director general answer the question about the exact number of displaced persons.

Let me tell you more about the announcement we made last October 23 regarding the supply of emergency food aid in Kandahar province. This aid was specifically meant for 12,000 families in the districts of Panjwai and Zherai. These families had to leave their homes during the Medusa military campaign. Thanks to the funds that we provided through the World Food Program, we will be supplying 4,400 tonnes of food to the most vulnerable persons, especially those who have been severely stricken by the drought.

With regard to more precise figures of the number of refugees and displaced people, I will let Mr. Baker answer your question so that he can give you more details.

[Philip Baker]

There are two major issues that would lead to a need for food assistance. There are internally displaced families for a number of reasons. There are also drought-related insecurities created for food issues. There are, as the minister mentioned, approximately 12,000 families in the Panjwai and Zhari districts who have been internally displaced due to intense recent conflict. Food aid is going forward to those groups through the World Food Programme. There are—

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

But they're not the only internally displaced people.

[Philip Baker]

That's correct. In total, there are about 20,000 families who are either internally displaced or have food and security issues due to drought, for example. In this case, the World Food Programme is delivering now the first of three waves over a three-month period. So far, over 600 metric tons has actually been distributed to over 6,000 families. There are two more waves to come in short order, over the next two months, getting them ready for winter.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Are you working with anyone else besides the UN program? Are there any NGOs on the ground in the Kandahar district that CIDA is partnered with or know of, other NGOs working there?

[Philip Baker]

In fact, the number of NGOs active in the province is somewhat limited, compared to other provinces, due to security reasons. For example, there were NGOs that were beginning to implement the MISFA program that we described earlier. They attempted that during one year but then brought those to a halt due to security reasons. There are other small NGOs across the province that are starting to gear up, but for large food distribution, it's the World Food Programme that is manning and leading the show.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you. I think also the concerns expressed about the militarization of aid has made a lot of NGOs apprehensive about working in that area.

I sent an inquiry to your department about spending and plans that Canadians were doing in Kandahar, and you gave me back a very thorough document. I want to thank you and the department for that information.

On the development projects that were focused on Kandahar, I was surprised to go through that information and find out that only 1.6% of the funding and the projects we're doing there were specifically targeted to women.

When we listen to the government talk about--not just our government, but also ISAF and NATO--the rationale for being in Afghanistan and the military missions taking place there, they always talk about the needs of women in Afghanistan. It may be the only time in history that women's equality is given as a reason for war.

Anyway, I was surprised that only 1.6% of those funds were specifically directed to women, even adding the nationwide funding for women's programs. Only four programs in Kandahar mention women specifically. I want to ask you about that in particular, because as I said earlier, women and girls are meant to be a big priority in what we're doing there.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

We must realize that the year is not over. As we gradually identify projects—be they for women, children or for other areas where we want to help the people—we are of course pleased to announce them and to implement them.

With regard to women, when I visited Afghanistan, I announced that we wanted to implement a professional education program for 4,000 Afghan women. We also intend to train 4,000 teachers.

Now let us talk about the condition of women in Afghanistan. They had absolutely no rights, and of course young girls did not have any either, because they are the women of tomorrow. Therefore we must act at more than one level. Not only must we train tomorrow's women, but we must also help the women who have never had the opportunity to have rights, to take their future in hand and to earn their living.

We are most assuredly paying very close attention to all the projects that are proposed so that we can rectify this situation.

Let me take this opportunity to tell you that when I was in Afghanistan, I had the opportunity of meeting with the director of Women's Affairs. She had been on the job for only a few weeks, because she was replacing the ex-director who had been killed. She asked me for two things: first, to come to the aid of women so that they can take their own future in hand, but above all to ensure security, for obvious reasons. As we are able to broaden programs for women in Afghanistan, we will be able to help them more and more.

Let me add something regarding this. Yesterday, I met with a representative of an Afghan NGO who is here, in Canada. He clearly explained that the more we work with the Afghan population, the less security problems we will have. As we become more able to protect the population and give it a chance to take its own affairs in hand, including its own security, we will be making great headway in Afghanistan.