National Defence Committee on Feb. 8th, 2007

[Dan Ross]

Yes, exactly.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

And who decides that a capability is urgently needed? Is it someone sitting at the table?

[Dan Ross]

Normally, the CDS and the Deputy Minister discuss those issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We're not getting the translation here.

Okay, here we go.

[Dan Ross]

It is the Chief of the Defence Staff, General Hincke, General Ward, the deputy minister, and the commanders on the ground who state that there is an urgency--for example, I can no longer fix wings on things, they're not safe to fly, and it's affecting the ability to deliver critical capability. I provide an advisory role.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

And once it has been determined that it is an urgent requirement, who decides whether there will be an advance contract award notice or a letter of intent? Is it someone sitting at the table?

[Dan Ross]

It's decided in discussions with Industry Canada and Public Works about what's available on the market. If there is no doubt that a number of solutions are on the market, that is not a consideration, and there is a formal appel d'offres, or RFP. If there is doubt that a requirement can be met by only one firm, we may consider at that point an SOIQ, a statement of interest and qualification, to confirm or not whether we should deal with a single firm or go to a full RFP process. That of course is much longer, and in many cases will add several years to the process.

So it's a joint discussion, and it also often includes the Treasury Board Secretariat.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

If I understood you correctly, the Departments of Defence, Public Works and Industry, as well as the Treasury Board, become involved in the process very early on. These are not separate steps—in other words, the Defence Department takes specific actions, then another department, and so on. Everyone works together.

Who decides to request a national security exemption?

[Dan Ross]

It is National Defence's call whether or not to request a national security exemption under the agreement on internal trade. The assistant deputy minister at Public Works will review that, receive legal advice, and either approve it or not approve it.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Who sets the delivery date?

[Dan Ross]

That is a military consideration in terms of the urgency, such as whether it's needed for operations or needed to replace a capability--i.e., our Hercules, which are rapidly dying. It's largely General Ward and General Hincke, with the vice-chief and the CDS.

[A voice]

And the services as well.

[Dan Ross]

Yes, and the services.

The three environmental chiefs contribute to that discussion.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

You referred earlier to a 15-year contract for maritime helicopters. The entire process was redone. Would you say that in that case, political intervention caused the contract to be delayed?

[Dan Ross]

I think that preceded my tour of responsibility in this area. I can't really comment on that.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

If there is an emergency and the minister himself believes the situation is urgent, can he intervene in the process?

[Dan Ross]

The minister is responsible for defence capability, ensuring the forces have the right equipment at the right time, and he discusses these projects and these programs with the Chief of the Defence Staff and the deputy minister. It is not an arbitrary process, where that's that and there's no discussion. Whether the minister was Liberal, or Conservative in our case, he has to have a comfort level with those performance requirements and the time and parameters discussed.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Can you tell me whether, in the case of the C-17s, the Minister of National Defence demanded that the process be fast-tracked? He did not necessarily demand it of you, I suppose, but I believe the Minister is able to say to Generals Hillier, Hincke and Ward that he wants that aircraft as quickly as possible. I consider that to be political intervention.

Is this common practice? Can it happen? Is it possible for it to happen?

[Dan Ross]

C'est possible. In this case, the process would have been the same. We would have gone out to industry, as we did, and invited anyone who had a solution, and we had proposals from Boeing, we had proposals from Russian transport companies. We confirmed that we only had one that was a certified aircraft in production and we went to them to negotiate a contract.

This strategic air process wasn't driven by a specific delivery date. I didn't approach it that way. I didn't need to.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

So, it is possible for the Minister of National Defence to say that he wants C-17s. In so doing, he will ask the various departments involved to prepare a contract accordingly, as well as the delivery dates. Once that process is in motion, the chain of command follows the instructions issued by the Minister of National Defence. That is possible.

Is that what happened with the C-17s?

[Dan Ross]

No.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

That did not happen?

[Dan Ross]

No, not in that case.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

But could it happen?

[Dan Ross]

Anything can happen.