Evidence of meeting #37 for National Defence in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was boeing.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:15 a.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
You say it's "political". You chose the example of Cuba, obviously you didn't choose Spain because it suited you to choose Cuba.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
No, it means that you have a list of 25 countries, and under ITAR—
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
9:15 a.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
You asked a specific question, so—
9:15 a.m.
Director General, Land, Aerospace and Marine Systems and Major Projects Sector, Public Works and Government Services Canada
In terms of the maintenance of an aircraft and the situation—and that is a hypothetical situation, so I'm providing an answer in a hypothetical state—for the in-service support that's been procured under a foreign military sale, this sale comprises an exception to the ITAR requirement, and a Department of State licence is not required for sharing ITAR-controlled technology material among the employees of the purchasing government.
So those Canadian Forces technicians who would have to go to Cuba to maintain that airplane, in order to bring it back home, would not be subject to ITAR requirements.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
But, when it comes to parts, ITAR applies. You know when you signed the contract, there was an important section in relation to service support, dealing with intellectual property. ITAR doesn't just apply because of security reasons. One other reason is economic protectionism, and also a fear of industrial espionage, among other things. So, all manner of steps are taken. But given that this aircraft isn't our intellectual property, systems-wise... I told you this before, we deal with frontline maintenance: we'll change the windshield wipers, change the oil and put fuel in the tank. But when it comes time to deal with computer integration systems and when we have to conduct second-line maintenance, well there'll be a problem because it isn't our intellectual property. So the foreign military sales, the FMS, will also apply; ITAR also applies to the FMS. That needs to be factored in.
9:20 a.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
One needs to be careful of one's choice of words: "changing the oil and replacing the windshield wipers". I know that you have a style rich in images—and I congratulate you on that—but one needs to do more than just scratch the surface.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
No, when there's not enough fuel in an aircraft, it isn't an image, it's a problem.
9:20 a.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
Well, no. At any rate, I think that if an airplane like that one—and we can ask Mr. O'Connor perhaps—had a maintenance issue, as Mr. Williston said, Canadians would repair it.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Minister, with all due respect, when you sign a contract you're responsible for it. I didn't give you a hard time about the region, because we're going to haul your colleague Mr. Bernier over the coals on that.
I know that there is a little bit of a spat going on between the two of you because when you were minister responsible for the Montreal region you fought so that Quebec would get at least some share and unfortunately it didn't work because Mr. Bernier was better at grovelling than you. But that's another story.
But the question is, as the official in charge of signing off on contracts, the buck stops with you.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
I think it's important to mention here that as far as ITAR is concerned, when you sign a contract—and you're a minister of the Crown; I've been a minister of the Crown—you work for the interests of Canada and Canadians. We were talking earlier about litigation. This is a problem that will only get worse, because when we're dealing with businesses and then have to make a choice between their employees and the contract, we're going to be in trouble. So you need to consider that.
I have a final question.
9:20 a.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Williston told you a little earlier that we looked after maintenance here in Canada. I don't know why you may have missed that.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
9:20 a.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
No, it's only every five years, he told you this earlier. Maintenance is carried out here in Canada every five years. That's what he said.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
No, not every five years. We don't have the infrastructure, planes are taken to the United States and completely dismantled there.
We strip the plane totally.
And if this isn't our intellectual property, then that's not a good thing, my friend.
For the tacticals, it will be sole source, for a total of $4.9 billion. The C-17 is an unnecessary purchase, in my opinion. It could have been rented; that would have been my plan B. It's a sole source. Now, as for the Fixed Wing SAR, some people seem to be getting their knickers in a knot over them. Will they also be sole sourced? Is the government making it a habit of having everything sole sourced?
9:20 a.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
I hear what you're saying about sole source. But where we you when the Chrétien government bought the Challengers, at the end of fiscal 2001? Where were you when the nuclear submarines were—
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
