Evidence of meeting #56 for National Defence in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chairman, Military Committee, North Atlantic Treaty Organization
Mr. Bouchard, do you want to know how motivated the Afghan forces are?
Chairman, Military Committee, North Atlantic Treaty Organization
I met with people in the Afghan forces at all levels, and they have an increased interest in establishing their operational capability. I interacted with the chief of defence on several occasions and with the Minister of Defence in Afghanistan. In all cases, they are absolutely and totally committed to developing their forces and the operational capability. To do so, they need a great deal of help, training, equipment and professional training. Over the last three years the Afghan military went from being practically non-existent to a force 30,000 strong. This number should rise to 70,000 under the aegis of the United States, the responsible G8 nation.
I constantly keep abreast of reports on Afghan operational capability. They are very competent during operations. Not only are people motivated, but they are absolutely committed to doing everything they can. Many of them lose their lives, like NATO forces, and I can confirm this for you.
Commanding officers tell us that Afghans who head operations, specifically those where they have to deal with opponents, do everything they can. What they are missing now is mobility, helicopters, aircraft and professional training. In my opinion you can't deny the fact that they want to become able, as soon as possible, to defend their country and ensure its long-term success. That is also true for police officers and border guards.
I should point out that the Afghan army's training and level of professionalism is advancing well. But, because police forces are probably two or three years behind the army, there is still a great deal of work to be done, with the support of the European Union mission which will be deployed in a few months.
Bloc
Robert Bouchard Bloc Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
I have a brief final question. Afghanistan is an important theatre for NATO. Would negotiations with the Taliban possibly be considered by NATO, instead of a military approach? Currently, it can be said that we have a military approach. Perhaps we could find out what the Taliban's needs are and negotiate peace or something which would ensure that it would not strictly be a military operation.
Chairman, Military Committee, North Atlantic Treaty Organization
If negotiations are to take place, they should be carried out by the Government of Afghanistan and not the international community. We, at NATO, have no intention of negotiating with terrorists, because that is not part of our mandate. We'll have to wait and see to what extent the Afghan government can negotiate with extremist citizens, or others, in this context.
We, at NATO have no intention whatsoever of negotiating with the Taliban.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
Thank you very much, Mr. Bouchard.
On a point of order, Ms. Black, go ahead.
NDP
Dawn Black NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
This is just to correct Mr. Hawn, who said I was incorrect.
I have General Howard's testimony from March 22 on weapons, and what he said was:
We've also seen, and the British have seen, new weapons being introduced. Surface-to-air missiles are a key concern right now, as are other nasty sorts of weapons.
So I'd just like to correct that comment.
Conservative
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
Hold it, that wasn't a point of order. I'm sorry.
Who do we have here? Mr. Hiebert.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, General Henault, for being here this morning.
General, my question has to do with the importance of acquisition of strategic and tactical airlift, and medium- and heavy-lift helicopters to NATO missions. As you probably are aware, Canada is in the process of rebuilding our military after many years of neglect, and there's been some suggestion that we're purchasing this equipment only for this mission in Afghanistan. The reality is, we're purchasing it for a longer-term perspective than that. I thought it would be interesting to get your perspective on what kinds of contributions this equipment can make, even in the short term, to a mission like the one we're experiencing in Afghanistan.
Chairman, Military Committee, North Atlantic Treaty Organization
Thank you for that question, because that falls very clearly into what NATO's very sincere objectives are in terms of transformation, and that is adapting all the forces of NATO, and its partners, for that matter, to the current and evolving challenges of this security situation.
NATO is going through a process of transformation that is very much focused on expeditionary capability, and that expeditionary capability can't really be satisfied without sealift and airlift, and in many cases airlift is crucial to the initial portions or the initial elements of an operation or deployment.
We certainly encourage all nations, quite frankly, to do what they can to increase their own capability for strategic airlift or sealift and for their own sustainment in theatre, whether it's heavy helicopters or mobility at large, if you like--whether it's fixed-wing or rotary-wing mobility in a theatre.
So without singling out Canada, I could say that what Canada is doing in terms of enhancing these capabilities is certainly entirely and exactly in line with what NATO's long-term objectives are in terms of supporting its expeditionary mandate, if you like, on an international and an operational front. So I'm very encouraged by what I see in that respect.
Whenever I talk to any of the nations that I visit, I always compliment them on the fact that they're improving their deployability, interoperability, and flexibility through initiatives of this nature.
As you may well know, there are many nations that are unable, for whatever reason, to do some of the things or make some of the investments that a nation like Canada might be able to make. In that context, they'll join multinational efforts in that respect. They'll join multinational airlift solutions, multinational sealift solutions, and so on. That, again, contributes to the overall capability of NATO as a whole, and I feel all of that is beneficial and will help NATO do its job in the long term.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Great. Thank you.
You commented during your testimony about the importance of providing security before rebalancing to diplomacy and development can occur. You made reference to the fact that this has occurred in the north and parts of the west, that they're now benefiting from the long-term investment of security in those regions, and that the south, where we're currently most heavily invested, is the next area requiring greater security.
I was hoping that you could explain for Canadians the importance of providing security and how it's absolutely necessary for the other development steps to occur. Please elaborate.
Chairman, Military Committee, North Atlantic Treaty Organization
Well, thank you.
What I would say, looking at Afghanistan over the last several months now, especially since the fall of last year, when we expanded operations into the southern part of Afghanistan, and then into the east, is that the security situation in the south and east is indeed improving. We're seeing more reconstruction and development in the south and in the east. We're seeing more projects that are benefiting Afghans. We're seeing the construction more and more of the ring road, for example. Some of the road construction in the south is part of a new operation called Operation Nawruz, which means “New Year”, which is focused on improving those communication capabilities that allow people to have alternative livelihoods and get their crops to market, things of that nature—legal crops to market, I'd specify. All of that is part and parcel of the improvements in Afghanistan. In the west, Iran is participating or contributing to road-building, for example. So there are many examples of how things are improving across the spectrum.
My own personal view is that as we continue to see these things happening--not the least of which is in the Canadian area, with Helmand province and Kandahar province, which I know you're very familiar with, having seen the maps on a routine basis.... We're now seeing another operation called Operation Achilles, for example, which is primarily for reconstruction and development, underpinned by a security situation that allows for that reconstruction and development and will allow for the renewal or enhancement of the Kajaki Dam, which will provide electricity for the surrounding area, an area that has had little or no electricity for years, if not decades. All of this will contribute to economic development and so on and so forth.
Stability and security are essential to reconstruction and development, but enduring development can't occur without security. So they go hand in hand.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
Thank you very much.
I'm sure Mr. Thibault will say we saved the best to the last. He's the only one at the table who hasn't had an opportunity to question, so he gets that now, and it will bring us to the end of our time.
Go ahead, sir, for five minutes.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, General Henault, for being present. It's an honour to have a Canadian in your position, bringing the experience and knowledge of Canada to that position.
It's a matter of great pride to see what our Canadian fighting women and men have done in Afghanistan. I've been a supporter of the mission from the beginning, when as a cabinet minister I accompanied you in Halifax to launch the naval operations on that deployment, as well as our commitment to Afghanistan. And I supported the extension in Kandahar.
I understand that we're going to be there a long time. I understand that as part of NATO we de-stabilized a country, one that wasn't very stable, but if we leave now it would be a disaster. I understand that NATO has a commitment to Afghanistan and we Canadians have a commitment to NATO. But there's a limit to what you can ask of our fighting men and women, and I think to be in a high-risk combat area for one rotation each is enough. It is the responsibility of the Government of Canada to advise a person in your position as to when we need the replacement, in due course, so that this can be done. I understand that we'll have to keep a commitment in Afghanistan--I'd be supportive of that, a military commitment in some form--but I hope we wouldn't always be in the highest-risk area.
I'll leave the politics aside, because I know that's not your role, but I want to bring you back to something that was touched on by Brigadier General Howard and that you also commented on. It is the question of building the capacity of the people of Afghanistan to run their own affairs. I understand that will take time, and I'm pleased to see the advances that we're making on the military side in Afghanistan and that the European Union is going to be moving on the policing side. I hope that centres like the Pearson Peacekeeping Centre are invited to play a role.
What kind of a situation do we face in Afghanistan, a country that, as you said, was an ungoverned space? It goes from quasi-modern governments in cities to tribal spaces and tribal governments. What kind of command-and-control structure do we have for that burgeoning military and burgeoning police force so that it is democratically operated?
Chairman, Military Committee, North Atlantic Treaty Organization
That's a very good question. You're right, there are many things that are improving. We see an increase in the GDP, for example, and all the things I mentioned at the outset--an elected parliament, for example, with a third or a quarter of that parliament being female, and so on. There are many things that are helping in this context. We see that the GDP growth is up 12% to 14% this year. All of this is a positive move, if you like, in the context of what Afghanistan is doing.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
I may have phrased my question poorly. I want some assurance that the police and military won't be an arm of one element of government, that they will be at the service of the public, as they are in Canada.
Chairman, Military Committee, North Atlantic Treaty Organization
That is a very important element, which I'm certainly prepared to talk to you about a little bit. That is in the context of the command and control of that organization. The Afghan army is patterning its command-and-control capability very much on western army structures, if you like. They have a chief of defence. They have a deputy chief of defence. They have a minister who actually oversees all of that. So they are using what we would consider to be democratic processes to govern the command and control or the direction and policy development of their military. So it's all there. It's burgeoning. They have the chief, his deputy chief, division commanders, brigade commanders, and so on, battalion commanders. It goes through the entire process, all of which we have to keep at least thinking about in the context, as well, of ethnic groups and they have to de-conflict that. That's the same in Iraq, by the way, with all of the ethnic populations that they have. But that is under the minister of defence. So the military is governed in the democratic way that we know, in that same way.
Under the ministry of the interior, they have their border police and so on. They have the Afghan national police, also under the ministry of the interior. They have judicial processes that are now very much in need of assistance as well, in terms of developing their police training, their judicial systems, their judges, and so on, their police capability at large, detention facilities, on and on. But they're all done in ways that we would recognize as democratic ways, even though they have the tribal links that come with them.
I'm encouraged by what I see, quite frankly, and that's all being assisted by the UN, the international community that's there, the strategic advisory team that Canada has provided, which is providing some excellent advice to the Afghans in terms of reforming and modernizing its military and so on. So the international community, Canada being very much in the lead on that with the strategic advisory team, is very much a part of what I think will be a success story for Afghanistan in the long term.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
I'm sorry, sir. We're long overdue.
General, thank you very much for being here today.
I noted in your bio that you're closing in on 40 years of service in the military. Congratulations on that. Certainly congratulations on the position you presently hold. Canadians are proud of you. They respect the work you've done over these last 40 years and that you continue to do.
The meeting is adjourned.
