National Defence Committee on April 10th, 2008

[Col Dean J. Milner]

The preparations we make before we go into theatre are substantive. But when we're part of the mission, we're a team, and we make sure that the team completely understands the challenge they are going to face in a particular operation. They've conducted a number of similar operations, and we talk about the things that can happen. We work through the whole operation, the different things that could happen. We make sure the team is mentally and physically 100% prepared, battle procedure-wise, for those specific events.

We continue to talk about it. We've learned lessons from other recent traumatic operations. We do a lot to prepare our soldiers for those kinds of operations.

Guys, is there is anything else to add?

[Lieutenant-Colonel Roger R. Barrett, Commanding Officer, Third Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment, Department of National Defence]

I'll just amplify that point. In an operation, the ability to have some control of your situation is important. Knowledge is empowering. Before an operation, we process the battle procedure, rehearsing what will happen, possible outcomes. If this happens, so what? If that happens, so what? It's just a terminology we use to get an expected outcome.

Then we rehearse and practise that. Going through the plan with the whole team, down to the last soldier, provides everyone with the knowledge of what he can expect. Nothing may go according to plan, but at least he has that knowledge.

The other thing that every single soldier will know is the next step. If there are casualties, he will know what the process is, how you get your buddy out, how you evacuate back, what the protocol is. So knowledge is empowering, and they have that knowledge.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

The last question I have deals with the very dramatic testimony we heard in camera. I can't talk about it specifically, but I was struck by the tenor of the testimony from families. This follows up on what Mr. McGuire said, about their feeling of not being part of the process once either their son or partner was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. There was a great deal of angst and disappointment with what didn't happen for the families. They felt they were part of the process for the healing of the solider, but they didn't feel they were given the ability to fully be part of that healing process. From what families are saying, it seems to be an even more dramatic problem with reserve soldiers.

What do you know about what might be happening to rectify that specific problem, to have families actually be part of the process with the counsellor or psychologist?

Also, one of the problems they pointed out vociferously was that getting the diagnosis in the first place was so difficult that they felt it prevented their family member from starting on the road to recovery.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

I apologize--I hate to cut you off--but we're way over time on this segment.

If you can, give just a short response.

[Col Dean J. Milner]

I can give you a very quick response, Mr. Chair.

I think the essence of this, the critical point, is awareness. We go out of our way to make sure the families are briefed from the beginning--throughout our training, during our deployments, and afterwards--so that they're aware of all of the resources and capabilities we have. If a soldier is injured, we automatically put an officer with that family. We make them aware of all the resources we have. We connect them with the medical people, our mental health capabilities, our specialists, and if something does happen, everybody is aware of everything that's happening. It's a tight family.

These are examples, I guess.... We're not doing it in every case, but I'll tell you, we go out of our way to make sure that the families.... I speak to families. I talk to soldiers. I debrief soldiers. My commanding officers do, my NCOs do. We go out of our way to make sure that we do that. We will continue to improve our outreach and our means of making sure that the families are aware. The families need to continue to come to us if they're not getting the complete information that they'd like.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Gallant.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to each of you for the personal sacrifices you have put forth in training our soldiers to the top-notch calibre that you referred to.

I can attest to the evolution of your training, having had the benefit of participating in pre-deployment exercises, even from back in the days of Bosnia in 2001, and the different “rotos” for Afghanistan. Definitely, even within a year there are new lessons learned and applied right on the ground.

[An hon. member]

Definitely at...[Inaudible--Editor]

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

It is top-calibre. It's a good thing my colleague is with the Royal 22nd, because I'm not sure he'd make it in any other regiment.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Colonel Milner, I understand you will be in charge of the rear party. What we heard when we visited base Petawawa during our study on Afghanistan was that even with a rear party, while the families who are associated with a regiment, who have a regimental family, were very well taken care of, the people from the service battalion, and people whose spouses are not members of a regiment, seemed to slip through the cracks. They did not receive their pre-deployment booklet that families get until well into the deployment. They didn't hear about all the activities going on during this time. Again, as you mentioned, the post-deployment, getting them ready for their spouses' coming back, is critical so they can recognize the signs that we're referring to.

In this rotation, what measures are you taking to ensure that fewer people fall through the cracks?

[Col Dean J. Milner]

We've learned lessons and we continue to learn lessons. Our resources are improved, as I think are our means of communicating the resources that we have.

We've developed a deployment support centre that now has soldiers from all of these different units actually working out of this centre. In the past we haven't necessarily had all of those troops integrated. Right off the bat, if there are soldiers from some of these outlying units, we now have specific personnel who work in this deployment support centre who are the first point of contact. So we can now outreach to those other units to make sure they have complete access to all of those great resources that we're continuing to develop.

Again, we push that knowledge back out to them as well. We continue to improve the passage of communication and awareness of all the things we can do through those different and improved means.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

While our focus in this study is operational stress injuries, there are, of course, physical injuries. With the IEDs being the predominant reason that our soldiers are being injured, there are certain injuries that we see more and more. Are there pieces of kit that our soldiers are asking for that we might not necessarily have adequate numbers of, or have at all in theatre?

I know we now have the tanks, which are very protective. You've been a proponent since the days they talked about taking them away to Wainwright. But in addition to the big kit, the personal kit, is there anything they need or have been asking for that you can relay to this committee?

[Col Dean J. Milner]

I can tell you right off the bat that the Canadian Forces, the army, has done its utmost to evolve and improve our equipment for the soldiers. I can tell you, having been to theatre a number of times, that I think as most of you are aware, the equipment that our soldiers have is some of the best, if not the best. But there are always things that we can improve upon. As a matter of fact, soldiers bring that up constantly. There are always little bits we learn from the Americans and from the Brits.

General Leslie, who takes a very keen interest in this subject, was down with my soldiers in Texas during the latter parts of our deployment, and there were some specific questions to him on everything from throat protectors to better-protecting eyeglass wear.

We continue to look at that. From an army perspective, we continue to learn lessons and push them up, and I can tell you, the responses have been quick, in most cases.

So yes, we are definitely looking at means of improving our equipment, because we know the challenges we've had with IEDs in theatre. There is newer equipment; there is better protection. I'm seeing it put on in theatre, onto the vehicles, and there is other equipment, so that we can save more lives.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

The problem that the professionals at CFB Petawawa tell me we have is that we're understaffed, which you alluded to. Valcartier has 40 staff; Halifax, 30; and Edmonton, 30. Valcartier and Edmonton have roughly the same number of soldiers as CFB Petawawa, yet we have only 16 staff and two part-timers to do the same job.

We know there is a difficulty in attracting medical personnel to the military. Has the military considered something as simple as offering more money to get staff to situate themselves at Petawawa?

[Col Dean J. Milner]

Absolutely. As a matter of fact, I can't speak 100% on behalf of our doctors, General Jaeger, as well as General Semianiw. We brought a number of personnel, first of all, to Petawawa to show them and make it clear exactly what resources we have. We know that we don't have enough and we know that it's an absolute focus for the Canadian Forces to give us more. I think right now we're looking at more civilian capabilities in that regard. We'll pay them through Calian.

So yes, I think, 100%, the forces are looking at different means of attracting more of those very important capabilities. We don't have enough. We know it. We need more. So I know that a number of different options are being looked at to increase our capabilities.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

With the increased tempo and shorter lengths of time between deployments, there's an increased stress on the soldiers, in back-to-back. I'd like you to give me some assurances for the families that because they've been there several times already, if they do need it, the help will be there, and especially for the families who have soldiers injured in theatre, where they don't have that time to decompress or the time to slowly go back to their families while still interacting with their military buddies. They're just plunged right back home without that soft landing.

What kind of assurances can you give to us for the families?

[Col Dean J. Milner]

I can tell you right off the bat that even in the eight months I've been in command, the capabilities and resources we now have within the base—and I'm very keen to show those to everybody—have improved immensely.

We have a warrior support centre. When I first arrived in that warrior support centre, it was almost empty. We have now filled it with, again, more personnel who can help the families, more personnel who can help the soldiers if they're wounded. There is easier access. That awareness is being pushed out to the families in all respects, so they are aware of it, and they will continue to be made aware of it, before their deployments and through their deployments.

We still need more, absolutely. But please come and visit. It's been really gratifying for me to see how things have improved over the last few years, even the recent eight months, since I was a CO the last time. So I think you can feel reassured that the situation is better.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you.

That ends the opening round. I was a bit generous with the time to each of you because the responses were so good, but we have some other business that we need to deal with.

Now, I don't know how many committee members can stay for a few minutes after 5:30 so that we can continue to question these witnesses. Or do you want to stop now and move on? I leave it up to you. I know that some of you have more questions, or you didn't get the full answers to your last ones. If we get started on the next round, it will take 35 minutes to complete it.

We can stop? Okay.

Gentlemen, I know you're only an hour and a half down the road, but we still appreciate very much your coming today. The responses were great. With the passing notes back and forth, it's pretty clear how the structure works in the military here, who's in charge of it.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you, all, for what you've done. Some have been over to Afghanistan and have come back and are going again, and some are getting ready to go. One of the issues we want to deal with next in our future business is we want to get out to see some of the last in-depth training that gets done before our soldiers go, to prepare them.

I'd just like to make one comment. I think I've seen numerous times in interviews some of our soldiers saying, “I don't really know what happened, but my training just kicked in and we did the deal.” I think that's exactly what you're telling us you try to reach before people are deployed.

Again, thank you very much.

Do have just a few closing comments you'd like to make, sir, before we dismiss you?

[Col Dean J. Milner]

No, I'd just like to thank you for the opportunity. Please come and visit. We have really improved our capabilities, and the soldiers love to talk to you. They'll tell you how it is. I know we have some challenges, but please do come to Wainwright. I know you've had some opportunities to go to Afghanistan.

We are not far down the road, and we're really keen to show off what we have and the training we do. So please do come. An hour and a half is not far. I know that everybody is busy, but please come down for a visit.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]