Evidence of meeting #11 for National Defence in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aircraft.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Maxime Bernier
Merci.
Thank you, Mr. Harris.
Now, Mr. Hawn, will you be sharing your time with Mr. Boughen?
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
We'll see how it goes.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, General Duval, for being here.
I want to follow up on just a couple of things that were mentioned across the table, just to clarify.
When we're talking about 41 miles from a spot, in air operations that is a very short time.
Commander 1 Canadian Air Division, Canadian NORAD Region, Department of National Defence
Yes, very short.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
If fighters are scrambling from even as close as Inuvik and perhaps as far away as Cold Lake.... If they're scrambling from Cold Lake, for example, it takes about three hours to get there.
Commander 1 Canadian Air Division, Canadian NORAD Region, Department of National Defence
Yes.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
So obviously the early warning is important, and those distances are very small. The reaction time is very important. From my information, they have come as close as just outside 12 miles on previous missions.
Just as a clarification of who controls who in NORAD, because it is a binational command, Canadians can be controlling American fighters in American airspace and Americans can be controlling Canadian fighters in Canadian airspace. Is that--
Commander 1 Canadian Air Division, Canadian NORAD Region, Department of National Defence
That's a true statement, and we have done so. Our recent deployment of CF-18s to help out our friends in Alaska not too long ago, in 2007, actually, is an example of that. They were under the command of the U.S. commander in the Alaskan NORAD region.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
That's clearly what binational means. It doesn't matter. There may be a Canadian commander sitting in the chair in NORAD and he's the one who picks up the red phone and calls the President.
Commander 1 Canadian Air Division, Canadian NORAD Region, Department of National Defence
Yes. As to the last question, if I recall, on February 18 it was my deputy commander who was in the seat, and he's an American.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Yes. Thank you.
These intercepts have been going on for decades.
Commander 1 Canadian Air Division, Canadian NORAD Region, Department of National Defence
Yes.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
They stopped for a while because frankly the Russians had no money. They've picked up, as you said, in the last couple of years.
We know they're coming from a variety of means. Can you comment on the desirability of exercising the entire system when we know they're coming, regardless of whether they've told us or not, and on the training value and the exercise of the entire NORAD command and control system that these Russian flights offer us?
Commander 1 Canadian Air Division, Canadian NORAD Region, Department of National Defence
It's training that doesn't compare to anything else that you can simulate. It is the real stuff. Although there is no ill intent in the conclusion, it certainly is motivating and exciting for our young folks who train for this. They can apply and confirm their training. It is a golden opportunity. The Russians are probably thinking the same way.
Conservative
Commander 1 Canadian Air Division, Canadian NORAD Region, Department of National Defence
Yes.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
In terms of being aggressive, you obviously have two markedly different aircraft types. When we say “aggressive”, do you expect a Russian bomber to manoeuvre aggressively with an airplane like an F-15?
Commander 1 Canadian Air Division, Canadian NORAD Region, Department of National Defence
I don't think they could match the capability of the F-15, but perhaps what the formation of two could do, the proximity of our airplanes, and that sort of thing....
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Aggressive behaviour is also things like jamming and electronic behaviour and so on.
Commander 1 Canadian Air Division, Canadian NORAD Region, Department of National Defence
That's right.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I don't expect you to comment politically, but the Minister of National Defence recently had a conversation with Mr. Lavrov, his counterpart in Russia, and did point out that filing flight plans would be helpful. Can you just confirm that typically no flight plans are filed and obviously we've managed the intercepts?
Commander 1 Canadian Air Division, Canadian NORAD Region, Department of National Defence
That's correct.
Conservative
Commander 1 Canadian Air Division, Canadian NORAD Region, Department of National Defence
Certainly. If we can identify and correlate the information on the flight plan with the object that we detect, even with radio calls confirming that you are who you are, it would simplify matters dramatically for everybody.
Conservative