National Defence Committee on May 13th, 2009

[Prof. Donat Pharand]

Thank you for your question. It's a very fundamental question.

Your two questions actually are interrelated, in that they both relate to measures that Canada should take and has not yet taken to exercise effective control over navigation through the various routes of the Northwest Passage. There are seven of them—I have distributed a map, though unfortunately you don't have it—but in future, in particular there will be passage through the two routes I am indicating.

Times have changed, with the melting of the ice. It is diminishing in thickness and in extent—it's a sort of two-component kind of affair—and immediately we have a tendency to jump to saying that navigation is going to become possible very soon and Canada can capitalize economically on it.

It's not as simple as that. Why? No shipping industry will take the risks involved—and I'm talking about money risks, in the end—unless they are assured that the coastal state, in this case Canada, has the appropriate infrastructure, which means all kinds of things that, by the way, Russia has completely on the other side. Not only has it 12 nuclear-powered polar icebreakers, but it has within its regulations the obligation imposed, if it sees fit, on foreign ships to use a Russian pilot once they get into difficult, ice-covered waters.

By the way, Russia concluded a six-year study—the research papers it produced occupy about four feet on my shelf—that ended about four years ago, paid for mainly, as I understand, by Japan. The eastern countries, China and Japan, are after all interested in the possibility of saving 4,000 or 5,000 nautical miles and going through what's called the northern sea route on the other side of the pole, and possibly ours as well.

But I repeat, to summarize my answer to your question, that the first part is yes, Canada can theoretically benefit considerably from the melting of the ice and the freeing particularly of those two main routes, but certainly the main one, the McClure.

On the other hand, with respect to your second question, the answer is, not until we can prove that we have the necessary infrastructure to protect foreign shipping.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

You still have one minute.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Okay. I have just one question.

We're in the process of passing an act in Parliament that will extend the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act's reach from 100 to 200 miles. One of the rationales of the government for doing that is article 234 of the Law of the Sea, saying that we can exert those types of regulations over ice-covered waters.

What happens when, as you said, in the near future those waters are not ice-covered? Do we still have the authority to exercise that act in those economic zones?

[Prof. Donat Pharand]

That's a very good question. I'm glad you raised article 234, which is often called Canada's article, with the support of the Soviet Union at the time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Your time is up, Professor Pharand, but you can have 30 seconds to answer the question.

[Prof. Donat Pharand]

The answer to your question, I think, is yes. Until it is amended, I do not see that one can give it such a narrow interpretation as to say they're no longer ice-covered. That's my guess. Nobody knows for absolute certainty. It would be subject, of course, to a judicial interpretation, but until that article is amended, my interpretation would be that it would still apply. Of course our Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act of 1970 and regulations were adopted on the presumption that eventually--and that's why we fought so much and so hard during the third Law of the Sea conference--it would be confirmed, which it was by article 234.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you.

We will now go to Mr. Bachand.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the two witnesses for their excellent presentations.

My first question is for you, Mr. Iskander. A while back, I had an opportunity to visit MDA and I was extremely impressed by your facilities in Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue.

In the area of satellite exploration or observation, is COM DEV one of MDA's competitors or do the two companies work together?

[Mag Iskander]

We worked together with COM DEV in many areas within the Canadian projects. We may compete with COM DEV in the area of commercial communication satellites internationally for French and other opportunities, but primarily we are partners on all of the Canadian activities.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

You mentioned in your presentation that the capability exists to observe the earth from space, that is the land and everything on and below the surface of the ocean.

Do you currently have the technology to conduct these types of observations?

[Mag Iskander]

MDA and the industrial team in Canada have a unique and world-renowned capability when it comes to sensing and observing the earth. Not only that, I can tell you that the United States, Norway, and other Scandinavian countries buy our data to manage their Arctic regions, along with other sources they have. We at MDA sell to these countries. So the short answer to your question is yes. No country has 100% capability to cover everything. We in Canada have all the main nuggets to build world-leading technologies in airborne radar, in space radar, in optical radar, in sonar capability under water, and so on.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

How old are your RADARSAT-1 and RADARSAT-2 satellites? Have they been flying for 15 years?

[Mag Iskander]

Radarsat-1 was designed for seven or eight years. It has been flying for 12 years, if I'm not mistaken.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Is it still active?

[Mag Iskander]

It's still active. It has some minor issues, but it's still active and operating. Radarsat-2 is designed for a seven-year life. We expect it to be well within the 10- to 12-year range, as most satellites that we build exceed their life expectancy.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

You have secured the contract to design the RADARSAT Constellation Mission. That means additional RADARSAT satellites are in the works.

How many satellites are being built? What will they be used for? What is their intended purpose?

[Mag Iskander]

The Radarsat Constellation Mission is in phase B right now; that's a second study phase. The current configuration is three satellites. That could be expanded into six total, but right now we're looking at three. They are of smaller size and mass than Radarsat-1 and Radarsat-2. Their function is to monitor the Arctic activities with what we call higher-visiting frequency. Because you have three in the same orbit, you visit the same spot three times more frequently than if you have only one satellite.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Are these radars designed to follow a trajectory from the North Pole to the South Pole, while orbiting the North Pole and the South Pole, somewhat like the COM DEV satellite?

[Mag Iskander]

I'm not sure what COM DEV is described here, but COM DEV is a partner with us on the RCM. It's the same program, the same project. It's a polar orbit, so it covers.... But it has a funny orbit, what you'd call elongated at one point in time, to stay longer on top of the north Arctic.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

You have one minute remaining.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I have a question for you, Professor Pharand. You seem to be well versed on this subject.

First of all, regarding Canada's strategy with respect to Arctic sovereignty, would I be off base if I said that one very important argument that will be invoked will be the fact that this territory has been occupied since time immemorial by a people known as the Inuit? Would the presence of the Inuit not be the main argument invoked to establish a claim for sovereignty?

You also mentioned a treaty or international convention. However, there is a UN body called the Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf. With the help of the studies it receives, the Commission tries to determine the boundaries of each circumpolar nation.

Ultimately, do you think these are the arguments or best strategies to employ to establish Canada's sovereignty over the Arctic, that is stressing that the Inuit have long occupied these lands and demonstrating through scientific means that Canada's continental shelf extends out to a certain limit?

[Prof. Donat Pharand]

The two questions are not connected, from a legal standpoint. A coastal nation's sovereign rights to its continental shelf are in no way dependent upon the occupation of the land. With respect to the limits of the continental shelf, we are not talking here about a separate convention pursuant to which scientific data submitted by states, in this case, the five Arctic States, would be considered. We are talking about a commission on the limits of the continental shelf. Currently, this commission considers data submitted by the five Arctic States. Russia and Norway must submit their data this year.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

And what about Canada?

[Prof. Donat Pharand]

Canada has until 2013 since we ratified our convention in 2003. Each State has ten years to submit its data. Occasionally, this process can take longer. In Russia's case, the deadline passed three or four years ago and it was granted an extension until 2013.