National Defence Committee on Nov. 5th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

I will now give the floor to Ms. Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you. I will be sharing my time with Mr. Wilfert.

Thank you again for being here this morning.

I wonder if you could expand on the question that Mr. Hawn asked you about the role of the Quebec government in its dealings with Canada, with you, and ensuring that you are part of the northern strategy. I'd like to know a little bit more about your discussions with the Quebec government, and the Quebec government's discussions with Canada.

[Michael Gordon]

We have very good communications with the Province of Quebec, with Premier Charest, and with the previous premiers as well. Our communication lines are very good.

Pita, our president, brought up the issue of Nunavik not being part of the northern strategy with the government. I don't have my papers with me, but I believe it was with the premier. He was to bring this issue up with the Canadian government, Minister Strahl mainly.

I believe it was brought up, but it didn't go any further than that. That seems to be the case.

[Daniel Ricard]

May I add? We haven't seen any actual correspondence on this from Pita Aatami to Premier Charest or his aboriginal affairs minister, but we know they've talked.

[Michael Gordon]

Actually, there was some documentation too.

On the other point, we're working well with the Quebec government for their plan nord. There's a big meeting happening tomorrow, I believe, or today in Quebec City. There's going to be an announcement. We're being kept updated as to what is being planned. They're saying Nunavik is going to be a big part of it, because they have no choice.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

What recommendations would you like to see this committee make, as far as your concerns?

[Michael Gordon]

If you're talking about a northern strategy, make it a northern strategy for the northern population and the geography—the people and the land. Don't exclude us just because we happen to be in the province of Quebec. It's based on artificial boundaries. Base it on real things: the land and the people. That's all I can say.

Do you have much to add to that?

[Daniel Ricard]

No, just the fact that, for example, in terms of plan nord, we understand it will be announced later on today that the Quebec government is establishing working committees with people from Makivik and Kativik regional government in order to determine exactly how plan nord could be realized and implemented. Perhaps this could serve as a model for the Canadian government's northern strategy—i.e., to involve the people who actually live there.

[Michael Gordon]

I'd like to add one more thing to that.

The Canadian government has to have more of a presence in the north in terms of Arctic sovereignty. As I said earlier, if there's someone missing or if there is a submarine.... I don't know what detection measures the Department of National Defence has, but if a submarine appears in our waters, people are not going to know about it. It's going to be the hunter who finds maybe a submarine or a ship, but the Canadian government won't find out before we do. That's what I'm saying.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Wilfert, you have one minute and thirty seconds.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Chairman, it's obvious we'll have to not only work horizontally across government departments in Ottawa. Obviously a trilateral approach with provincial, territorial, and aboriginal organizations—in this case, the Inuit—is preferable.

On the issue of the Arctic Rangers, in terms of reconceptualizing the Arctic Rangers, since we are talking not just about sovereignty but about climate change, what role do you see them playing in terms of environmental monitoring; in terms of their often under-utilization for work; in terms of assisting with work for those unqualified or unable to work in wage employment in small communities; in terms of dealing with supply across the country with regard to food in the north--in other words, in terms of expanding beyond the role they have now?

[Michael Gordon]

In many cases the rangers are hunters. A good majority, maybe 99% of them, are capable hunters in their communities. That's how they're chosen to be part of the rangers. They're given training on how to do search and rescue patterns and such on the land and in the water. So they're already part of the wage economy, because they hunt and provide for the community in terms of getting country food and fish. I can't really tell how you could add to that.

The land-based economy is quite significant in the north. The amount of food provided or put on the household table is quite considerable compared to the food brought in by the wage economy. The land-based economy also includes arts and crafts and seamstresses making parkas and winter clothing, which is heavily used in the north.

I don't know if I've answered that.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Maybe I'll come back to climate change later.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Gordon.

We'll now give the floor to Mr. Braid.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Gordon and Mr. Ricard, for being here this morning and for your presentation.

Mr. Gordon, towards the end of your presentation you mentioned that there have been a number of federal contributions and those have made a positive impact on social and economic development in Nunavik. Could you elaborate a little bit on what those contributions have been, and specifically what they've done?

[Michael Gordon]

I mentioned the marine infrastructures program. It's basically a breakwater, or an artificial harbour, which provides close to 24-hour access for the hunters and people out and about on the waters, giving them a way to return to home base.

In Nunavik we have the largest tides in the world. We had one of our river systems measured for depth. I don't know if anybody is here from the Bay of Fundy, but Nunavik was measured to have even higher tides. We beat it by a couple of feet, or a couple of inches, but it was a decent amount. So we have that challenge—there are a lot of big tides in our regions and the weather plays a big part.

Marine infrastructures have helped out the communities a lot, and Makivik Corporation provided the services to put up these breakwater marine infrastructures. They serve an important need. But it's real basic—the ships cannot anchor to those marinas or offload on them.

Sorry to be a little wishy-washy.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

No, that's helpful.

The central theme of your presentation is that the federal government's Arctic strategy should include Nunavik. But the reality is that Nunavik is part of the province of Quebec. Could you speak to that, if you can? I'm trying to assess the level of political will or openness on the part of the province of Quebec for the federal government to be more involved in the affairs of Nunavik.

[Michael Gordon]

If there's more money, they'll accept it.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I think we heard that earlier from our colleagues. But have discussions taken place? What does the landscape look like?

[Michael Gordon]

With respect to housing, we have the federal government looking at bringing in a catch-up program, and we hope this will be set up this coming spring. The federal government and the Quebec government would put in money to provide the extra housing needed for the region. So there's always that openness.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

That is an important development.

Could you describe your relationship with the Government of Nunavut?

[Michael Gordon]

We don't have too many dealings with the Government of Nunavut. Makivik Corporation deals, when we have to, with the Nunavut government, but we also deal with NTI, a Nunavut company similar to Makivik. We work through the Inuitape-Canadame, so we have good relations with them.

The Nunavut government seems to worry about their region, rightly so. We work closely together on our marine region. We have some subsidiaries that we jointly own with companies from Nunavut, like the NEAS company. We're joint owners of that company with a company from Nunavut.

When we do have to work together, we can, and communication lines are good.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

Now I will give the floor to Monsieur Bachand.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to add that the Quebec National Assembly has requested that villages located north of the 60th parallel be included in the Northern Strategy. The Quebec government is not the one opposed to this move. Quite the contrary, in fact. In my opinion, it comes back to Canada's relationship with first nations, the Métis and the Inuit. The federal government has a certain responsibility toward them.

For that reason, the National Assembly believes that it is unfair for Inuvialuit—located more to the west—instead of Nunavik to be included in the strategy. To my knowledge, unless I'm mistaken, the people of Labrador are not included either in the Northern Strategy. They are asking to be included, as they automatically come under provincial jurisdiction, in this case, under Newfoundland's jurisdiction. Perhaps the government needs to bow to the obvious, namely that it has a responsibility in this regard and must contribute.

We must stop thinking like White People, that is according to defined borders. Since the dawn of time, the Inuit have not defined themselves by borders and have travelled the length and breadth of the Far North. Regions must not be penalized today because Ottawa is establishing boundaries. Earlier, you referred to the people of Nunavut as “your cousins”. Certain cousins mustn't be given more advantages than others. Everyone must be treated equitably.

I want to come back to the issue of housing. According to information that I obtained from the provincial government, a major housing program is in the works. Provision is being made to build 1,000 houses. The Quebec government has apparently already committed the sum of $300 million over five years. Apparently, all that is needed to move forward with the program is for the federal government to come on board. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the government is trying to exploit this situation for political gain, but perhaps it is waiting for elections to be called in Ottawa to announce...

Have you also heard the news that Quebec is asking Ottawa to kick in $250 million, while the province would contribute $300 million over five years toward the construction of 1,000 homes? Perhaps you could enlighten us further about this initiative?

[Michael Gordon]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Bachand.

The federal government is looking at providing a catch-up program, providing about 1,140 houses, I believe, for the next seven years after it announces it. After this, we wouldn't have a housing shortage. We have the regular housing program and the negotiations for that. Since it has to be renewed by springtime, by March 31, they are going ahead as planned.

This provides about 60 houses per year, but it does not catch up to the shortage that we have. We need those 1,140 houses to catch up with the housing shortages. The shortage of housing in the Arctic, in Nunavik, is very stressful for the families in Nunavik. Overcrowding creates family problems. We have families where there are multiple generations. We have grandparents with their children who are now adults and who have their own kids. Their brothers might stay in the same house, too.

That creates family problems. It creates social problems in the communities, and it can also be a health hazard. We have swine flu happening in Canada and around the world right now, so transmission of these things could be very risky for many of these families.

We are very well aware of the housing program and the catch-up program that is being suggested by the federal government. We were unhappy to hear recently that it might be delayed a bit. That might be due to the election.