National Defence Committee on Feb. 25th, 2009

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Okay, that's what I wanted to hear. Thank you.

I'm struck, when I'm reading your remarks today and just going through this, with one of the issues you identify. You say that access to quality care depends on a number of arbitrary factors, and one you identify is the attitude of the member's superiors and peers. Then I'm looking through the report here, and one of the things you say is, “one is left to question the lukewarm leadership and commitment at the national level”, obviously at a lower level. How serious an issue is this? What can be done? Post-traumatic stress disorder often carries a stigma, in the minds of some, and it is important to work around this.

[Mary McFadyen]

That's a very good comment to make.

Again, we found during our investigation that stigma was still an issue that arose at every base we went to. We talked to caregivers and family members. I sound like a broken record, but that's why we do think leadership is needed at the highest level to make sure that the word that this is inappropriate behaviour trickles down to every base across Canada.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

What would you do in the first steps to make that recommendation happen? Is it training?

[Mary McFadyen]

It's somebody appointed, a high-level officer reporting directly to the Chief of the Defence Staff. They would be responsible for all areas with respect to the treatment of operational stress injuries--education, training, treatment, and diagnosis--so that they have a good handle on all aspects and know where training should go. We think that's very important.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

As time passes, one would hope that this kind of attitude or stigma would be diminished. Have you experienced a difference in your two reports?

[Mary McFadyen]

Certainly it was very profound in 2002, but it was still an issue that was raised at every base during the second investigation. It's still an issue that's raised. I've met with family members myself, and they still raise it as an issue, that it's still a problem. People are afraid to come forward.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Ms. Gallant. No?

Over to the government side and Mr. Boughen.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Let me first of all add our congratulations to you, Mary, for your very succinct and well-written report.

I have a couple of questions that arose as I read the report. The first one would be this. What do you see as the requirements that are needed to deal with the shortfall in the report? There's the original recommendation and then another nine recommendations. It seems to me that some of the recommendations are being acted upon, for whatever reason, but we're not privy as to why or why not they're not being acted upon. What's your thought on that?

[Mary McFadyen]

As to why the Canadian Forces haven't acted on all of them, that is a good question for the Canadian Forces.

Again, we would hope there would be leadership shown high up to make sure those programs work on the ground.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

What do you see in terms of putting in checks and balances for the implementation of the report?

Like any report, the design of that report has to have something in terms of a timeframe. What we're looking at here this afternoon is what happens to the report. If there's no time attached to it, then time just moves on, a bit gets done, and other things maybe do not get done.

[Mary McFadyen]

In the past with this issue we made a commitment to follow up on them, which we did. These recommendations are still very important, and something that we intend to keep raising with the Canadian Forces until we observe that they've correctly handled the issue and ensured fair treatment for all Canadian Forces members.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Do you now have a liaison person that you work with who is a member of the Canadian Forces?

[Mary McFadyen]

When we ask for an update on recommendations we usually provide it to the Chief of the Defence Staff, for example. He's the leader of the Canadian Forces. He may assign it to somebody, but we expect him to respond to us on these matters.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

We still have some time.

Mr. Payne, go ahead.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm interested in your opinion on the Canadian Forces reserves. There's an awful lot of reserve people entering into the regular forces to assist in Afghanistan.

My question is this. When these individuals return, do they have access to the health services that you refer to in your report? If so, do you have any kind of information around the numbers that might be there? Where would they be able to access that across the country?

[Mary McFadyen]

Offhand, I don't have the number of how many people are reservists who are participating in Afghanistan. The Canadian Forces should have that number exactly.

When they serve in Afghanistan they will be on a class C contract as a reservist, which means they would be entitled to the same health care as a regular force member. If they're injured over there and if they come back to Canada, if their contract ends, they would no longer be entitled to health care as it stands now.

Usually what happens is, of course, when they come back, CF has renewed their contract if they still need medical care, but that's basically on the goodwill of their commander. That was one of the issues we raised in our report. It shouldn't matter if the contract ends. It shouldn't be based on your contract; it should be based on why you were hurt. It should be based on who is looking after you.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Do I still have some time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Yes, you still have a minute.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I have another question. I have Canadian Forces Base Suffield in my riding, and there are military people returning from Afghanistan. If they have been injured, where would these individuals be able to access the mental health care facilities?

[Mary McFadyen]

That's again a very good question. One of the points we raised in this is that sometimes there aren't services available where the member lives, and that's something the Canadian Forces have to ensure, that there are services available. It shouldn't matter where you're living, what base you go back to. You should be entitled to the same health care wherever you're living in Canada. That was one thing we found was not the case when we did our investigation.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

You have 21 seconds.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I have a really quick question. In terms of access, would the Canadian Forces then be able to outsource this to, say, local providers?