National Defence Committee on March 11th, 2009

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

So more specific information on this subject should be available in future.

[Philippe Hébert]

Predictions concerning retreating ice cover are not always accurate from one year to the next. One of the most difficult things in the Arctic is certainly to predict weather conditions over the coming years.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Okay.

I would like to raise another point. There are many countries involved, and perhaps some of them have information that you cannot share with me. Whatever the case, I would like to know whether Canada is expressing its will to protect its sovereignty and what its actions in that regard are, as compared to other countries. In your opinion, is Canada doing about the same, more, or less than other countries?

[Philippe Hébert]

All countries that have territory in the north make efforts to protect their sovereignty. All countries do so everywhere on their territory. We also do so on the east and west coasts in the same way. There has been new interest in the Arctic due to climate change, whether in Denmark, Russia, the United States or Canada. I think that we are about the same as other countries. We're certainly not lagging behind. We are making similar efforts to other countries in this regard.

Obviously, we're not going to build five or six nuclear icebreakers like the Russians, but we're making every effort possible. Our efforts are comparable to those of other countries.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I would like to raise one last point. If I have any more time, I will share it with a colleague.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

You have two minutes left.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Perfect.

You said earlier that the deep water port would perhaps be ready in 2015. There are also other needs that will naturally incur costs. Do you foresee that the amounts indicated here will be sufficient in the short term? Do you foresee other needs based on how things evolve?

[Philippe Hébert]

As Commodore Gardam said earlier, as things develop in the north, needs will have to be reassessed, and that's what we foresee for now. Current projects and initiatives correspond to the needs anticipated for the next 10, 15 or 20 years. Obviously, conditions can change drastically. It's difficult to foresee. We therefore made a best guess regarding what will happen, and conducted our analysis on this basis. If in 20 years the needs are greater, then it will be up to the government to decide if it wants to invest in more resources.

[Pascal-Pierre Paillé, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Currently, do you feel that you have the resources you need to achieve the objectives you have set?

[Philippe Hébert]

Yes, I think so.

[Cmdre D. Gardam]

Without a doubt, as I said earlier, we require a pragmatic approach to how we're going to deal with Arctic security and how we're going to work with the other government departments. What we can't do is say we've done our bit now, and rest. We have to continue to look at what is happening to the Arctic and how we need to respond as a nation.

This is something that will be with our grandchildren and our grandchildren's children. We have to get it right. I think the approach we're taking now is pragmatic and responsible, and it's one that will serve us for the next 20 years or so. As the ice continues to melt, we will continue to have to look at this. I will not be in the navy in 20 years, but I expect my reliefs to be saying we need something further north--up by Ellesmere.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you, Mr. Gardam.

Mr. Blaney, the floor is yours.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome you because I was not present at the first meeting. I would like to say that when my colleague from the Bloc Québécois referred to Canadian sovereignty, that was music to my ears. I would like to reassure him that I will not bring that up during question period.

I would like to welcome our colleagues who are beginning our study on the Canadian Arctic. It's true that this region represents 40% of Canada's territory and has a population of 100,000, which is very few. I would like to thank you for the slides and the explanatory notes that you handed out to us.

Mr. Gardam, you refer to 90 people in the headquarters in Yellowknife and a squadron of 45 people, as well as 75 people at Alert. This means that there are 200 to 300 military personnel stationed permanently in the far north. Is that correct?

[Cmdre D. Gardam]

These are our permanent positions. We rotate them every two to three years. People are posted to one of these bases and they are there, as you will find when you speak with Brigadier General Millar. He is the commander of Joint Task Force North and he lives in Yellowknife right now.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Do you intend to increase the number of military personnel from the regular forces on a permanent basis, whether for a reserve company or a training centre? Do you foresee this number increasing over the coming years?

[Philippe Hébert]

I don't believe that the army will deploy many permanent staff to the far north. We want to improve our operational capability in the far north as needed, but we don't need to deploy 500 or 600 soldiers on a permanent basis. A small group will likely be on site for a few months to work at the training centre.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

In any case, there are 1,500 Rangers in the area.

[Philippe Hébert]

Exactly.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Hébert, there was something that surprised me in your presentation. You talked about cooperating with other departments, but you did not refer to the coast guard.

Could you enlighten me on the role of the Canadian Forces and the coast guard and their relative importance? How do you see this role developing over time?

[Cmdre D. Gardam]

I'll take that question.

The Canadian Coast Guard is primarily an aid to navigation organization. They service all our lighthouses, buoys, marine aids, and our waterways. They ensure it's safe to transit in Canadian waters. The work the Canadian Coast Guard is doing in the north right now is helping to chart the passages through the north. We're working in cooperation with them on SAR and how we would jointly respond to a SAR incident in the north.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

SAR?

[Cmdre D. Gardam]

That's search and rescue. That's where our level of cooperation is, and it will continue to be in those sorts of areas.

In the past, the navy has done some work with the coast guard. A good example was Hurricane Katrina. In 2006, when we sailed ships down the east coast to work with the Americans, we took coast guard ships with us. They did buoy tending and that sort of work, while we did humanitarian assistance.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

You have 50 seconds left.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

We could talk about ships. You are going to purchase a patrol ship, and the coast guard will have icebreakers. What is the role of these ships?