National Defence Committee on Sept. 15th, 2010

[LGen J.P.A. Deschamps]

Absolutely. The minister talked a little bit about what we would be able to do but cannot do today. We are talking about an internal threat, a ship that may be carrying dangerous items or threats that do not necessarily emanate from a state but that need to be monitored. Current monitoring techniques are limited without being detected. With an F-35 platform, the government can monitor without having to take action. That gives us options that our current conventional airplanes do not. The same answer applies to air-to-ground operations. The aircraft can carry out those operations. The danger is much less than what we can do with conventional planes.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Bryon Wilfert]

Thank you, General.

We'll now go to Mr. Braid for five minutes.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Through you, I have some questions for the general, arising out of his presentation.

I wanted to start by asking about the transition plan. You indicated that, of course, the time period for the acquisition of the F-35s, the eventual replacement of the CF-18s, in fact is 10 years from now, 2020. Why is it important to have a transition time?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Bryon Wilfert]

General.

[LGen J.P.A. Deschamps]

Well, it's important because it's a big difference in technology, and therefore there's going to be a re-education required, for both the air crew and our technicians. So that takes time.

As we saw with the CF-18, to go from our legacy CF-104s and Voodoos to CF-18s took us from 1982 to 1988—six years—but we had more airplanes. Right now we only have two combat squadrons, so we're going to have to do this very carefully. While we're doing transition we still have to keep doing our job. We're going to have to look at how we overlap learning. When we think we're ready to cut the string on the CF-18s, we'll say, okay, we can now put that unit to rest and we now have a new capability.

It will take time. It will take us several years to do that learning and transition to a new capability without losing our current and expected capabilities to meet our defence needs.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Very good.

Through you, Mr. Chair, I have a technology-related question now. Through earlier presentations, I think it's been made very clear how Canadian industry will benefit through this contract, through the acquisition of F-35s, particularly from a hardware and a manufacturing perspective.

I'm interested in the technology side and specifically the software aspect of this. Could you speak to opportunities for Canadian high-tech business, for the type of knowledge workers and knowledge-based jobs that we want to see created in our economy? What opportunities will there be with respect to the development of new technology, the commercialization of technology right here in Canada?

[Michael Slack]

Mr. Chairman, that's an excellent question.

A number of Canadian companies have developed software for the JSF program. I bring your attention, and I think it was referred to in earlier testimony, to the company NGRAIN in Vancouver. NGRAIN's technology is actually going to be used for monitoring the maintenance of the low observable stealth codings on the joint strike fighter, not only for Canada but for all the partners. That's just one example of a number of examples of where Canadian companies have developed software for the joint strike fighter.

Another good example that I like citing is Adacel. It's working on the voice recognition software for the joint strike fighter. Actually, our pilots will be talking to the aircraft, and the aircraft will be able to recognize the commands that our pilots will be giving it, and that software is being partly developed in Canada. That's quite an amazing high-technology development.

Those are just two examples of many that are out there right now and are actually being employed in the JSF program.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Bryon Wilfert]

Mr. Braid, you have about a minute and a half.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you.

I have a final question, perhaps back to you, General, with respect to the eight other partner countries that we're participating with. I'm thinking specifically of countries like the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Australia. Are you aware of the number of planes, F-35s, they have identified that they wish to acquire? And what are those numbers?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Bryon Wilfert]

General.

[LGen J.P.A. Deschamps]

I would pass that to Mr. Slack.

[Michael Slack]

The total number of airplanes that will be bought by the partnership is 3,173. That's exclusive of any airplanes that are bought by third parties like Israel, which will add to the number. The total expected buy of joint strike fighters is anticipated to be around 5,000 over the life of the program, making this probably the last major manned tactical aircraft program that we'll see certainly in this century.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Bryon Wilfert]

Mr. Braid, you have about 30 seconds.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

If I could perhaps be more precise, in a country like Denmark, or perhaps Norway, do you know the number they have identified?

[Michael Slack]

We do, but I can't provide that particular number to you.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay. Understood.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Bryon Wilfert]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Monsieur LeBlanc, for cinq minutes.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your presentations, gentlemen. General, thank you for your comments. I think you did a good job of describing the needs of your air force, and I appreciate that.

My question perhaps is for Mr. Ross, or for someone else who perhaps is better able to answer.

We've heard a lot of discussion around the 2006 MOU. I'm not absolutely certain if in fact this is an accurate statement. Does the 2006 MOU prevent Canada from undertaking a competitive process to acquire the next-generation fighter aircraft?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Bryon Wilfert]

Mr. Ross.

[Dan Ross]

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Slack can correct me if I'm wrong--he is the expert on it--but my understanding is that, no, technically it does not prevent you from entering into another process. It does prevent you from acquiring it through a direct commercial contract without withdrawing from the PMOU.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Understood.

So a competitive process that would lead to that same conclusion, to continue under the MOU and sign a procurement contract and so on, would in fact fall within the four corners of the MOU. You would have had a competitive process, and if the aircraft is as capable as you've said it is—and I've no doubt that you're accurate—then presumably that aircraft would win the competitive process quite easily.

[Dan Ross]

That's a very good point, sir. There are two problems with that. First, under current government contract regulations, when you clearly have only one supplier you actually should directly negotiate with that supplier. In this case, you would do it through the PMOU.

The other serious issue with that is the time it would have taken, during which the global supply chain for joint strike fighter production would have effectively excluded Canadian companies to billions of dollars of detriment.

So we had two major issues with the time and effort it would have taken to do a process that would have had the same outcome.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Bryon Wilfert]

Thank you.

Mr. LeBlanc, you have about two and a half minutes.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Ross, I appreciate that answer. Following up on the supply chain, it perhaps was the colonel who said there were all kinds of stuff in various public reports. Certainly I don't have any way to assess whether or not it is accurate, but I'm hoping you could help me.

Around the operation and maintenance cost we have seen numbers vary rather wildly as to what over the life cycle of this particular aircraft, the F-35, the maintenance cost would be. Can you perhaps share with us some research you have or some work you have done and clarify what is the range of what would be the appropriate operation and maintenance cost for the life cycle of this plane, and how you arrived at those numbers?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Bryon Wilfert]

Mr. Ross.