National Defence Committee on Oct. 7th, 2010

[Alan Williams]

This was not done. None of this was done. Zero.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

If it had been done, on whose orders would it have been done?

[Alan Williams]

Well, before you're going to spend $15 billion or $20 billion, there's a fairly rigorous decision-making process. At the end of the day, it's the minister and the government—the minister, through the government and cabinet—that would say that we are now authorized, as in fact I'm sure they went through and authorized things.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Sorry to interrupt you. They're the rules of the game, as you know.

Had it been done, would it have been the Minister of National Defence who would have had the ultimate responsibility?

[Alan Williams]

This gets into the overlap question. Let me make this one point, as Monsieur Bachand knows and mentioned. There is no minister accountable for defence procurement. This is the case today. This was the case when I was ADM. And I think it's a travesty. There is no one minister you can pinpoint for the success or failure of any defence procurement.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Okay. I'm interrupting you again, Mr. Williams. I just want to make sure you're saying that even though there is no one minister responsible, ultimately, in fact, no minister actually drew up such a list.

[Alan Williams]

That is correct.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

You have 45 seconds. I don't know if you want to use it.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

No, I'm finished.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

You are very efficient, thank you.

Mr. Hawn, you have five minutes.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to go back to something Madame Folco said and a remark you made about our role being different from the Brits' and the Americans'.

Obviously, the Americans are involved in many more things than we are, but I would suggest to you that the American requirement for long-range interceptors in the north, just as we fly in the north.... We're side by side with them between Alaska and Canada. The Brits have the same requirement north of their country. Our requirements in those kinds of missions are in fact very similar. They are the same, and we've shown as much with the airplanes we've operated: CF-18s, CF-104s, CF-5s, CF-101s. In other missions, such as Afghanistan, where we're operating together, we're not there with fighters at the moment. The Brits and the Yanks are.

I would suggest to you that our roles are very similar, in fact, to the Brits' and the Americans' role.

[Alan Williams]

The only comment I'd make is that if you look at our defence paper, on putting Canada first, the one we just recently did, I don't think it's the same policy paper on the role of the military that you'd find in the U.S. and the U.K.

I'm not saying there are overlaps. I'm saying we're an independent country that will define the role of our military as we think it ought to be. All I'm saying is let's do that publicly, and let's see how this—

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Sorry, no, I get your point, but our aircraft have traditionally been the same as the Brits' and the Americans'—

[Alan Williams]

Well, I would make the point—

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

—because we do the same things.

[Alan Williams]

Well, I would make the point that they have a range of aircraft, including the ones that we have, but they have a whole wide range, and so does the U.K., going well beyond our one aircraft.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Absolutely. That is why we have to make sure we get the best bang for the buck.

[Alan Williams]

Absolutely.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Regarding the outstanding performance of Canadian industry--and I agree--do you have any doubt that Canadian industry can continue to compete and win in the international arena?

[Alan Williams]

We were winning 30% to 40%. I think that's great product. There's no reason to assume we can't continue to do that.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I agree totally.

Let me read a quote from your book: “From the industrial perspective, only companies from participating countries would be eligible to compete for contracts in the program.”

[Alan Williams]

Correct.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

“While there were no guarantees of industrial benefits if one joined the program, it was guaranteed that no business from this program would flow to Canada's aerospace sector if Canada did not participate.”

[Alan Williams]

Correct.