National Defence Committee on Dec. 9th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank our witnesses for being with us this afternoon.

Thank you, Mr. Guitton.

Thank you very much, Mr. Beach.

I'm going to suspend the session for two minutes. After that, we will continue our agenda by discussing the committee's work for next Tuesday.

Thank you very much for being with us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

First of all, I want to have a discussion with members of the committee about our meeting next week. Specifically, next Tuesday we will have a steering committee meeting regarding witnesses and how many meetings we will need for Bill C-41. We also want to discuss our trip to the east, the details of that trip, who we are going to visit, and whether we wish to have public hearings. We have a lot of things to discuss next week.

I also received a request from the minister that he is ready to appear before us next Tuesday, for an hour, to start Bill C-41 My proposal is to meet with the minister for an hour and then take an hour for our steering committee.

I just want to put that on the floor for discussion with the members before we decide.

Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Legislation has priority, and it's logical that the minister involved with the legislation be the first one to appear with officials. The minister is available on Tuesday, and it would be our position that this is how we should proceed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Wilfert.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Chairman, we always welcome the minister. However, on Bill C-41 we want to look at drafting some amendments and we obviously want to study the bill a little more. We appreciate that the minister is available. Often, when we want the minister, he's not as available as we'd like. So we appreciate that.

However, given the fact that the House will be ending shortly, we would like to have some time to provide quality amendments to the legislation.

I appreciate the generous offer made by the parliamentary secretary to the minister. I would suggest that hopefully in early February we can have the minster for two hours, and not just on Bill C-41.

It would be our position, Mr. Chairman, that because of time constraints, we would like a little more time. We will respectfully decline the offer of the parliamentary secretary.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I'll just point out that the Minister of National Defence has made more appearances at committees than any other minister in the government. He's been extremely generous with his time. I just want that on the record.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I'm sure that's because of the quality of his parliamentary secretary.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Not at all, not at all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. LeBlanc, the floor is yours.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to clarify a few things. I had a conversation with Mr. Hawn in private. I assure you that we have no intention whatsoever of delaying the adoption of this bill or of holding endless hearings.

We believe that these are important amendments to a bill that is of utmost importance for National Defence. We want to take the time in January to study certain aspects ourselves because we will have technical questions.

It's very likely that the minister or the judge advocate general will be able to answer these questions. We have no problem accepting that the minister will be the first witness and that he will be accompanied by the judge advocate general. I'm in favour of that, if he can be here for two hours at our first meeting in early February.

I don't know what my opposition colleagues think, but we intend to work effectively and to hear the witnesses that we'll choose in the next few weeks. Then, we'll be able to proceed fairly quickly. We don't intend to hold this up, but we still want to do a serious study.

If we do it this way, we won't be ready on Tuesday to ask relevant enough questions, given the significance of the bill. We would prefer to start slowly and steadily in early February.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you.

Mr. Bachand, the floor is yours.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I share this point of view.

First, even if the minister came on Tuesday, we wouldn't have time to finish the study of the bill by Christmas. Moreover, we won't be sitting next Tuesday, as far as I know.

I think that having the minister appear, having him talk to us for an hour about Bill C-41, and then adjourning and returning home, then coming back in early February and starting it all again would do little good. But there's nothing stopping us from starting to think about what kind of witnesses we want to hear from.

I am currently taking steps to prepare amendments with legislative counsel. I would like to fine tune some things in this bill. I don't see the point of inviting the minister. His presence is still an important piece of the puzzle, the political piece, and we are having him appear on Tuesday. Then we will close the books and head home for a month.

I would like us to get off on the right foot at the end of January and have the minister join us then. I'm happy to. I think he'll be accompanied by the judge advocate general. It doesn't seem like much, but having the judge advocate general here is important because he can answer technical questions. If he comes with the minister and we talk about technical matters, and then we head off on vacation, eat a little turkey, drink a little wine—

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

We won't be on vacation; we'll be working in committee.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

We're allowed to celebrate Christmas and Christmas Eve. There is also the strong possibility that we'll forget things with all of that.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

It must be old age.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

That's certainly true.

We should get off on the right foot at the end of January.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Hawn, it's your turn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I just have another quick point on that.

I would suggest that we need to come on Tuesday having thought about who we want for witnesses, so we can discuss the work schedule.

[An hon. member]

Sure.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I'd ask for a vote, but I can count.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Harris.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

We're all aware that committees regard legislation as a priority, and perhaps the clerk can help us here, but my understanding, from the people in our legislative crowd who've told me, is that it doesn't mean that everything else will come to a halt when we start working on this bill. It's up to the committee to determine the pace at which it's going to look at the legislation. It's not as if there's any intention to drag this out, and don't take that as the message. But I certainly don't think we have an obligation to drop everything and do nothing about this.

For example, we have a commitment to travel to Newfoundland and Nova Scotia in the first week we're back. I don't think this should displace that by any means. For obvious reasons, it's been announced and made public, and it's important to follow up on that.

So when the steering committee meets on Tuesday, I don't know what the intent is. Is it just the steering committee that will meet on Tuesday?

If that's the case, fine. At some point, the committee must determine....

By the way, I'm not going to be ready next Tuesday to say “Here are all of the witnesses that I can possibly call on Bill C-41”. That's not going to happen. This is premature.

As someone said, we just had this bill passed yesterday, or whatever day it was in the House. It's an extensive bill and the first time, other than for minor amendments, this bill will really be reviewed by Parliament and committee. So we're going to do a proper job, as far as I'm concerned. I don't think that requires us to say “Here are the witnesses”. I can indicate one or two, but I can't say I'm not going to call anybody else. I'm not going to be boxed into doing that by Tuesday afternoon at three o'clock, or whatever time we finish our meeting.

I'm not going to rock the boat here vis-à-vis my learned colleague's suggestion that the minister might be premature on this as well. But maybe we can have our steering committee meeting and have a full committee meeting to ratify whatever the steering committee meeting does. That seems to me to be an adequate agenda for Tuesday.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Not to belabour it, but you can always add witnesses. But if anybody's thinking that we need a great number of witnesses—and you may think we do, and it's up to you—that will drag it out. In my view, it's just not necessary, but that's just our view on this side.

You should have some idea by Tuesday, because I think I could name some of the guys you would want as witnesses.