National Defence Committee on Feb. 1st, 2011

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you.

Commissioner Wells and Mr. Clay, thank you for your presentations. I share the view of my colleagues that it's been very interesting. I'm from New Brunswick, and the regional Atlantic media have shown your commission's deliberations, including the rather dramatic day that the survivor went to testify. That really marked our imagination.

Commissioner Wells, I wonder if you have any simple recommendations on federal government assets that are available in search and rescue. Obviously the helicopters or the aircraft are key parts of this. This morning we had an interesting discussion with the coast guard. They have a critical role as well. Could you offer a wish list to this committee or to the Government of Canada of the changes that could be made to improve what I think is a phenomenal service already? The brave men and women in that service do phenomenal work.

It comes down to resources. I acknowledge that from the outset. If there were additional resources that could be found or changes that could be made, how would you go about improving this outstanding service? Take the discussion of night flight. There is a 30-minute standby that exists in certain air assets during the day. Maybe you could just flip that around. If the risk at night is so much higher, why wouldn't you have a 30-minute standby from 10:00 p.m. until 6:00 a.m., and then have a two-hour standby during the day? For a whole bunch of logistical and resource reasons, that's not simple, but what kind of things like that might you suggest?

[Robert Wells]

The question you're asking goes to the heart of what I'm not supposed to be talking about, which is the response of DND, or at least where it puts its—

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

If I were to retain you, it would be a privilege to be able to offer a privileged opinion.

[Robert Wells]

The best I can say in cases of offshore helicopters going down or ditching is that if some people would be expected to live, speed is the important thing.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

You mean the time it takes to get on site.

[Robert Wells]

I mean speed of rescue.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Every minute counts.

[Robert Wells]

If I may take a moment, there's interesting work being done by the National Research Council here in St. John's. They are testing. Since my report, Ms. Fagan and I and Mr. Roil have actually been in to see what they're doing. They are finding that wave and wind action reduces the efficiency of the suits. That is, if you are in still water, even though it may be cold, it is one thing, but wave and wind action makes it much more difficult to withstand the cold.

They test people in three-hour stints. They have moving water in their pool, and wind action. These are young people. They don't come to people my age and ask if we would like to participate. These are young people, and a lot of them cannot stay in these conditions for three hours even in a good immersion suit. They just have to come out. They're blue with the cold and shivering violently.

So conditions offshore are important, and so is speed.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you.

Mr. Clay, perhaps you don't have the restrictions that Commissioner Wells does; you might just offer us suggestions of what the Government of Canada could do to improve.

[Paul Clay]

From my perspective, it's simple. The intention of search and rescue times is to save lives, and the intention of those resources is to save lives.

Canada's two-hour response is the longest in the world, as far as I know. In my opinion, it is grossly where it shouldn't be. We should lower those times. Irrespective of the cost or the resources required, we should lower those times and provide a rapid response, irrespective of whether they have to go offshore or onshore.

I also believe there is a case to be made for not necessarily eliminating resources in Gander, but having another resource located in St. John's. That would be my opinion.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

I will now turn the floor over to Ms. Gallant.

You have five minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My first question goes to Mr. Clay. Do you keep a crew at the ready 24/7, 365 days a year? Is that what you do? Do you keep a crew ready 24/7?

[Paul Clay]

No, we're an emergency preparedness company. We write emergency response plans for our clients--the oil and gas industry, the marine industry, the aviation industry, etc.--with regard to how they plan to manage their emergencies offshore, at sea, on board ship, and on land. That's what we do. We don't respond physically to the emergency; we plan for the response.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

You plan for the response.

Then, Mr. Wells, if we have a dedicated chopper provided by the oil company, what number of crews do they have to have ready to respond for the different shifts during the day?

[Robert Wells]

They have to have pilots, of course--two pilots. They have to have at least three rescue specialists, as they call them in the private sector. They don't call them SAR techs, but they are the same people, and most of them were trained by the military. They leave the military in due course and go into the private world.

You'd have to have two shifts, and if it's around the clock, you'd have to have at least three shifts. Of course, it does become expensive.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

So you'd have to have three shifts--

[Robert Wells]

And you'd have to have living quarters out there. They'd have to be housed, to put it that way, at the hangar. If you're going to have a short response time, you can't drive two or three miles or kilometres from home, or that sort of thing.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

In other countries, some of the oil rigs have a chopper on site, on the platform. Is this a recommendation you've made as well?

[Robert Wells]

No, I didn't make that recommendation, because as yet Canada's offshore is quite small and I didn't feel that would be sensible. What I did say is that if the industry expands here on the east coast, the time will come when the C-NLOPB and the oil operators ought to begin thinking in terms of stationing a helicopter offshore.

The current installations offshore would not be able to accommodate a search and rescue helicopter as things stand now. That's my information.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

We have had the same type of briefing information come from the military side. They have said that they need three crews--actually, three choppers--situated in this circumstance in Gander, two under maintenance and one at the ready, just to have one response ready at any point in time, and it sounds as if the same is true for the dedicated chopper for the oil rigs.

[Robert Wells]

Just to fill you in, all through my working life I thought helicopters required two hours of maintenance for each hour in the air, but these heavy lift helicopters require three hours of maintenance for every hour in the air.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

What we've been told is that now it's up to 30 hours of maintenance per hour in the air, and that's collective--

[Robert Wells]

Oh, collectively, yes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

So it does take three choppers to keep one in the air. It sounds almost that....

Also, we know that the private sector poaches employees from DND.