National Defence Committee on April 1st, 2010

[Dan Ross]

I don't think it's hard at all.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

I don't understand the delay.

[Dan Ross]

The delay is perhaps a broader interdepartmental understanding of the options, and agreement on those options. Once the process gets started, it could probably be quite quick.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

I'm sorry, you said the process of that--

[Dan Ross]

Once there is broader agreement and the chief of the air staff makes his final recommendation on requirement, I think the process, once under way, could go quite quickly.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

So it's once the SOR has been established. That's what the lynchpin is.

[Dan Ross]

That's right.

You know, the SAR sector in Canada is what the SAR sector is.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

It hasn't changed.

[Dan Ross]

The range from those bases are what they are. The speed required to maintain the same service to Canadians is what it is.

It's a question of how you want to articulate that to the market. Do you want to articulate that as very specific hard numbers, or do you want to articulate it as providing a SAR service that provides good protection to Canadians?

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

This is what I'm trying to wrap my head around. Notwithstanding global warming, the challenge is still pretty much the same.

[Dan Ross]

It's the same. The sector hasn't changed.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

On CF-18 replacements, you mentioned something in your comments, and I'm sorry, I may have missed it. When will an RFP be put out? Because the fuselages are getting tired. So many have been retired, as you know. Can you anticipate when an RFP is going to be put out to replace the CF-18s?

[Dan Ross]

It's interesting. It goes back to the previous question. Mr. Bachand asked why there isn't success on all of these.

The CF-18 replacement is not programmed until 2016-17. As I said in my opening remarks, we took the last delivery of our R-2 upgraded fighters last Thursday--an enormously successful program: off-the-shelf upgrades designed with U.S. Navy-proven systems. The air force are absolutely delighted with their upgraded F-18s, which will last us, clearly, from 2016-17 to past 2020. Because we have structurally managed the air life of the platform, we do not require a new fighter until 2016-17.

As you know, we are participating with the United States in a joint strike fighter program, which is an MOU. It is a memorandum of understanding between the governments. So either you could have an open competition, which would include other fourth-generation fighters, or you could acquire joint strike fighters through the MOU.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

I have one brief question. Getting a more streamlined approach towards procurement over the long run so we don't have these peaks and valleys—if that can be done so that our navy in particular integrated with the needs of B.C. Ferries and our coast guard--will enable us to have a long-term, more streamlined and smoother procurement process across all of those, and frankly provide a lot of jobs in Canada, as we both know.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

A short answer.

[Dan Ross]

It's absolutely the right point, particularly for shipbuilding. In shipbuilding, you need a long-term view of 20 to 40 years and a long-term, continuous build without the uncertainty in the shipyards of not knowing what's coming next. Shipyards shut down, they sell equipment, and they let people go very quickly. Uncertainty there is almost disastrous to them. A long-term, continuous build and long-term partnerships with several yards are very key.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Thank you very much.

Now we'll give the floor to Mr. Boughen.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for spending some of your day with us, Mr. Ross. We appreciate that.

I have a couple of questions. First, how do you view the changes that will affect your department at the end of 2011? Is the department doing any research in the ability to identify these landmines that pop up all over the place? Is there ongoing research to develop the identification of those landmines and where they are? Because that seems to be the big killer of our troops in Afghanistan.

[Dan Ross]

Thank you, sir.

Most of the landmines have actually been used up by the Taliban. Most of the ex-Soviet artillery projectiles have been used up. We see more improvised fertilizers and that type of explosive, sometimes older anti-personnel mines, as triggering devices. I can't go further than that because of the classification.

I don't think we have a mine clearance issue as we did in Bosnia. Bosnia had millions of mines left over after the conflict there. Afghanistan is not the same situation. Virtually all of our casualties to IEDs have been on roads. They've been deliberately placed IEDs and targeted to hit NATO vehicles on roads. So no, I don't think we have a mine clearance issue. I'm not an expert at the degree of minefields that are there.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

How do you see the change in your department when 2011 arrives?

[Dan Ross]

I could comment from my perspective. We will repatriate large amounts of equipment, large numbers of vehicles, and a mountain of other materiel. Ammunition alone is a mountain. We're planning that in great detail right now with operational support command. We will have to refurbish a huge amount of materiel. Our vehicles are in good shape, actually. We are doing that continuously now.

As we announced, the tactical armoured patrol vehicle will replace our Nyalas and Coyotes, which we'll take out of service and not refurbish. It will provide new fleets. The LAVs are upgraded continuously and are coming out of the rebuild line in Edmonton brand new. Periodically, we recycle a whole package into Afghanistan and bring the other ones back, which we have done every 18 months. Our Leopards will go through a repair and overhaul program.

So our vehicles are in relatively good shape, but it's the thousands and thousands of night-vision goggles, weapons, and pieces of tentage that all have to be cleaned, repaired, and replaced, etc., as required. It's going to be about four or five years of work.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thank you.

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Maxime Bernier]

Mr. Payne.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you for coming today, Mr. Ross.

I have a few questions, and I'm not sure if we'll get to all of them. Mr. Wilfert talked about announcements being made to Canadians for projects that were so far out, they were not necessarily being done for immediate purchase. I was thinking about that, and I saw it as actually quite a positive opportunity, first of all, to let Canadians know what's on the minds of the politicians in terms of trying to provide equipment for our Canadian Forces, which is really important.

Secondly, I saw that as an opportunity to give a heads-up to industry and let them know what's going on so that they in fact can be in touch with the procurement individuals such as yourself. I'm wondering if you have a comment on that or whether you want to comment on that.

[Dan Ross]

I will just comment briefly, Mr. Chair.

The public announcement is formally announcing that we're beginning to define solutions. The first public announcement is never the contract award or the beginning of spending money. It is we will formally be able to go and talk to companies, send out price and availability requests, letters of interest requests, and have a formal exchange.

For a multi-billion-dollar program it normally is at least a couple of years prior to effective project approval and a contract award. The actual contract award is tied to the cash phasing in the investment plan, which is all phased. For example, the F-18 is phased 2016-17. It's not phased sooner because I don't need a new fighter aircraft before 2016-17.