National Defence Committee on Dec. 1st, 2011

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

If possible, could I have the list of contaminated federal sites that we were talking about?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

If you'll just give me a moment, we have a list of some of those sites.

In this supplementary (B) estimate, what we're talking about is the remediation of sites, mainly in Ontario. There were three radar lines built in Canada for North American defence in the 1950s and 1960s. They were decommissioned in the early sixties. They were contaminated sites that were mainly used to store petroleum hydrocarbons for heat, heating of the buildings, vehicles, maintenance, and aircraft. Some of those substances, including paint, were left behind. There was heavy metal and asbestos contamination associated with these on-site structures. The funds in supplementary (B) were dedicated—

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Minister.

Could you just name the sites quickly?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

—to remediating those sites. So these are the moneys associated with this supplementary (B).

I'm just answering your question.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Could you just quickly tell me where the sites are?

I don't have a lot of time to ask questions. Could you just give me the names, please?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

There's a Goose Bay site and one in Ontario. So it's those two sites.

Do you want to add to that?

[Kevin Lindsey]

Let me quickly add that this is a federal initiative that started in 2005. We have moved now to the second phase.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, I didn't ask those questions, so I will just continue.

[Kevin Lindsey]

Mr. Chair, I don't have a list of all the sites. We are talking about $196 million for those sites over the next five years. But I don't have the list of sites at the moment.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I'll just ask that you share that information by written response to the committee, and we'll circulate it.

You still have three minutes left.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It seems to me that a few sites are missing.

I have two questions about that. Often, if we don't do something about the contaminated sites quickly, the contamination spreads. And if we do something later, it will cost us more to clean them up. I think some of the sites we have heard about are missing.

Wouldn't it be better to act now in terms of the other contaminated sites to avoid paying more later when the contamination has spread?

Furthermore, I don't see any funding in the estimates for the victims or the people whose health has been affected. So could you tell me why there is no such amount in the estimates?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

This fund is for cleaning up contaminated sites. There is no allocation in supplementary (B) for the people affected by the sites. This is strictly for the remediation of land.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

What about the fact that, if we don't act now, cleaning up some of the sites will cost us more in the future because the contamination will spread?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

That's exactly what we're doing. As I mentioned in a previous answer to a question on contaminated sites, we rank them in terms of the priorities. So we deal with the most contaminated sites first. That is how we decide which sites receive the allotment of funds first.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Let's take Shannon, for example. The water table is contaminated. There is no mention of that in the estimates. There is no amount for that and we have decided not to do anything about it right now. So we can expect to pay more in upcoming years.

Wouldn't it be more responsible to act now in order to avoid paying more in the future?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

I know that enormous amounts of money have been dedicated specifically to the Shannon site you're referring to, but that is not covered in the supplementary estimates (B). That particular site has been dealt with in previous estimates. Previous dollar amounts have been dedicated specifically to that issue. You're talking about a water table issue.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

On page 68 of the French version, it says that $9.4 billion will come due for payment in future years.

Could you quickly break that amount down for us and tell us how it will be allocated? Is there a chance that the amount was underestimated and that we will have to pay more later?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

I'm sorry. What specific amount are you referring to? Sixty million?

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

On page 68 of the French version of the supplementary estimates (B), it says that an amount of $9,430,224,000 will come due for payment in future years. That is the amount I am referring to.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

I see an amount for the funding of security establishments. If this is the amount $9.348 million, it is funding dedicated to building the new Communications Security Establishment Canada building. A similar amount is allotted to combatting human smuggling.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Your time has expired.

We're going to move on to Mr. Norlock for the last five minutes.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing. Through you, Mr. Chair, to the witnesses. I want to deal specifically with the recent visit that Minister Fantino made to Trenton. In particular, I noticed in the supplementary estimates (B) that there's a transfer to other departments with regard to chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear weapons.

Before I go into it, I think the Minister and I were shown an example of how the Canadian Forces not only are ready to address those particular emergencies should they occur, but also how they work with other civilian entities.

I'd like to deal with the costs in particular since that's what this meeting is about. I wonder what this initiative consists of, and in particular, as I said, the transfers to other departments.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Mr. Chair, if I may respond, the research and the deployment of highly experienced chemical, biological, and radiological nuclear and explosive experts is today's reality in the precarious world we live in. The constant upgrading of those skill sets is a critical component of what the Department of National Defence is responsible for.

I can tell you, coming from a law enforcement background, that when it came to some of these kinds of responsibilities requiring highly technical expertise, we always did reach out to the Department of National Defence.

So a lot of those costs are incurred for the usual equipment and for training. Some of that training cannot be done locally; it's done outside the country. The costs relate to the upgrading of the certification of those people in their very dangerous work. A very highly skilled set of resources is necessary to do this kind of work. That funding is necessary to keep up their skill sets and certification, to ensure that we deploy people with the right equipment, and that we do research as well. You and I did see some of the research they're doing to ensure that they're able to perform in as safe an environment as possible when they're called upon to deal with these kinds of issues.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much. I'd like to pass some of my remaining time to Mr. Opitz, if you don't mind, Mr. Chair.