This is a matter that I think is important to the operation of the committee. It ought not to be controversial, frankly. I really don't know why it's being resisted. We had some pretty compelling testimony from the chair of the grievances committee.
This is designed essentially to permit a member of the grievances committee...which now, as a result of the last section, is called the Military Grievances External Review Committee, or the grievances committee in short form.
Here's what we say:
if a matter has been referred to the Grievances Committee and the term of appointment of a member who has been participating in the consideration of the matter expires, or the member resigns, before the Grievances Committee concludes its consideration of the matter or gives a decision, the member, solely for the purpose of the Grievances Committee's concluding its consideration of the matter...shall continue to be considered a member of the Grievances Committee, except if removed for cause.
The last four or five words were prompted by some penetrating comments by Mr. Hawn during the last round of this consideration. He expressed some dissatisfaction with the wording we had chosen.
What if some member had been removed for cause, for doing something outrageous apparently, or whatever one might do to get removed for cause from a grievance board? I guess people can do scandalous things and be removed for cause.
If you look at the last committee hearings, the discussion was that we were not really opposed, but we didn't like the wording so much. That was two years ago, in February or March of 2010. There have been two years to work on good wording. I haven't seen that come forth from the other side, but I'm forgiving. I don't blame Mr. Hawn for that. He's not the government. But the argument was that there wasn't anything particularly wrong with it except that we didn't like the wording. So we have gone out of our way to deal with the concern that was raised and to try to craft something that fits the committee.
I don't know if we had that testimony the last time, but we certainly had it this time in spades from Mr. Hamel, who said that when it comes to the end of the term, he has two or three people who can't do anything. He can't assign them a case. He has to pay them. Their workload goes down and down, and until somebody else is appointed, he can't give anyone a job.
There's another thing that is important, which we didn't get into at the committee hearing because there wasn't time. There is a strong principle of administrative law that says the only people who can participate in the decision about a case are those who have actually heard the evidence. If Mr. Chisu, Mr. Hawn, and I were the three adjudicators, we would hear all the evidence. It would go on for a year. It can do that under this provision, without a 12-month requirement. If it goes on for a year, we have a few days here and we go on, back and forth. Then we would have to write a decision. But if Mr. Chisu's term of office expires, we're back to square one, because Mr. Hawn and I can't make the decision in his absence even though we all heard the evidence. Mr. Chisu can't participate in the decision after his term expires, and we're back to square one. That is a principle of administrative law.
I have practised a fair bit of it myself. I'm not testifying as an expert, but I'm telling you that's a common principle.
So this actually ought not to be controversial. I would say not all, obviously, but most boards and tribunals across the country have provisions like this. The Labour Relations Act in Newfoundland, for example, with which I am very familiar, has one. In the Judges Act, it's pretty clear that a judge who sits and hears a case, even though he's retired because he's of mandatory retirement age, can continue as a judge for the purposes of rendering a decision.
We're just trying to do something that is efficient, in terms of saving money and ensuring that the people who are appointed to do a job and are paid to do a job are actually able to do the job up until the end of their term, and if there is a need for a person to make a decision, solely for the purpose of concluding the consideration and giving a decision, the person continue to be considered a member of the grievances committee, unless removed for cause.
I suspect it's a Conservative principle that people who are appointed to a job should be used, and not be idle for a while, given only a three-quarter load because they can't be assigned any more cases. That doesn't seem to jibe with common sense or the kinds of principles that would be espoused, in terms of efficiency of government or tribunals.
I'm only saying this because I haven't got a sense one way or the other from the other side yet whether they think this is acceptable. But I submit it's a quite reasonable and practical proposal that accords with common practice across the country.