Evidence of meeting #77 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was care.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
First of all, thank you very much, Major Wiss, for your service in Afghanistan. And thank you for your innovative service in Afghanistan and for bringing the ultrasound machine. At that time, in 2007, they were learning. They were not really expecting what was happening. In 2006 we didn't have too many casualties, but 2007 was actually a year I will never forget in my life. If you remember, in the week of Easter we lost six, and after, three of our comrades.
Your presentation brought back memories from Sperwan Ghar and Masum Ghar and so on, and the work you are doing to be able to supply engineers this time...your generators and all the infrastructure. We didn't have too much.
4:15 p.m.
Maj Ray Wiss
We appreciated that, sir.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
I know it was very hard on us because we were very few.
What I would like to ask you—and in the Role 3 Hospital we have had two slides, the CT scanner, which was very rudimentary....
Tell me, how were you able to work with coalition forces? The Canadians didn't have helicopters. How did this work, between getting all the wounded in the FOB and transporting them to Kandahar, to the hospital? I am asking you in this context. What was the big difference between 2007 and 2009?
4:15 p.m.
Maj Ray Wiss
Interoperability, in terms of how we worked with our allied nations...I wouldn't tell you there was a lot of difference between 2007 and 2009 because it was pretty seamless. The Role 3, the whole time I was there, was a Canadian-commanded, Canadian-dominated operation, so maybe that helped.
In terms of evacuations from the FOB, that was always run by the Americans on their choppers, with their medics, or almost exclusively their medics. These are people, medically, we were very close to already.
I spent a few days at Kandahar, and even there, working with a British neurosurgeon and a Danish anesthetist, it went pretty smoothly, again because trauma work is not rocket science: “There's a hole here. There's a hole there. There is damage in between. You know what to fix.” There is not a whole lot of room for intellectual argument, as there might be over cancer or diabetes.
It was pretty smooth, and we didn't have any trouble with our allies.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Did they appreciate your ultrasound machines there?
4:15 p.m.
Maj Ray Wiss
Yes.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
I'm just asking because it was an innovation.
4:15 p.m.
Maj Ray Wiss
It was, yes.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
We had the Israeli tourniquet. It just seemed the....
4:15 p.m.
Maj Ray Wiss
No, they absolutely did. I brought it out and used it on one of the first days I was in Kandahar, much to the amazement of these U.S. surgeons who were there, who couldn't believe it. I was doing a procedure where I was sticking this big catheter pretty deeply into this guy, and they said, “What are you doing?” I said, “Well, trust me, this is exactly where we need to go.” It worked, and they were duly impressed.
But I think even more to the case, further on in my tour...I guess my reputation had preceded me. I was able to call for evacuations for patients who looked fine but who were bleeding to death inside. That's the enormous advantage of ultrasound. You have two patients. One of them has both his legs ripped off, but he has tourniquets on his legs and he's not bleeding anymore. He's actually going to live for several hours. The other guy beside him looks pretty good, but his belly's full of blood; there's no way you can push on that and stop the bleeding. He's the guy who goes in the chopper first and the other guy waits. That's how you end up with two living soldiers at the end. That's the huge advantage.
I was able to call for these evacuations for people who normally wouldn't have warranted one, and I got them into the operating room in time.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Thank you very much for your explanation about the ultrasound, because it was an innovation for everybody in the field.
Can you tell me a little bit more about what was happening with the soldiers after coming back to Canada? Did they continue to have the care that was necessary?
4:15 p.m.
Maj Ray Wiss
I would say so, sir. The vast majority do. That's really the message. I know I sound a bit like a broken record, but you have to get the message out there that the care is there for the guys. If you're having trouble, if you're aware of a soldier who's maybe disappointed, he's heard these horror stories and he's heard of a buddy of his who's had a bad result from an interaction, tell him to try anyway, because the system is working for the vast majority of people. Their care is there and it's doing a good job.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Jean-François Larose NDP Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank our witness for being with us today.
I want to make a brief comment.
When I was three years old, I was fortunate enough to travel to Afghanistan before the Russians invaded. The people I saw were incredible. What they're going through now is horrifying.
My hats off to you for the work you did. The conditions are extremely dry and very tough. Despite that, your morale is high and you've done an excellent job maintaining your ties. You're doing a good thing, and we can say that with pride because the civilians there need that.
4:20 p.m.
Maj Ray Wiss
Thank you.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Jean-François Larose NDP Repentigny, QC
When I was a reservist, I had instructors who had been in Bosnia and were still suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome, and yet they were still instructors. You've had the privilege of experiencing operations. Oftentimes, the people here are clinicians. They do a tremendous amount of research, and that's important. You didn't make a contribution just there, you also made a contribution to the frontlines. You've experienced battles and you've been with comrades in arms.
From what you said, I gather a certain culture exists. If I understood correctly, you said the problem is they won't come forward and say they're grieving and having trouble coping.
Is it possible they're worried about turning their backs on the people they're with every day? Is it possible they're worried about losing the job they spent their entire life training for? Are there improvements that can be made in the field? It can't be easy when a rocket lands on the camp.
4:20 p.m.
Maj Ray Wiss
No.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Jean-François Larose NDP Repentigny, QC
It can't be easy; it must be hell, in fact. Morale must drop. No doubt you experienced that in the field.
4:20 p.m.
Maj Ray Wiss
You asked a number of questions. Is there a worry? There is always the worry of not being able to be there for our comrades. The first time I was shot at, strangely enough, the feeling I remember most is relief: I had faced it head on and not run the other way. I found that strange at the time. The logical thing to do is run the other way, but I felt relieved because I wasn't going to desert my comrades on the battlefield. That shows you how strong the ties we have to our comrades are.
Do those who feel like they're losing their way worry about losing their job? The answer is no. We won't be turning our backs on anyone anytime soon for a reason like that. I would say it's the same as with any other injury. Naturally, an injury changes what you do in life. Some of our snipers have lost a leg. They won't be snipers anymore, but the Canadian Forces can find them a position in teaching or administration. The same applies to an emotional wound. It changes what you do. The army can always find you another position. Whether it's as a cadet instructor or something else, the army will find something.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Jean-François Larose NDP Repentigny, QC
Did you make any recommendations to the Canadian Forces based on your observations and experience in the field, anything pertaining to the device you mentioned earlier that could be useful in the field? Based on what you observed from the psychological and operational standpoint, did you make any recommendations on other ways of responding? It might involve modified missions or more frequent rotations. I'm not sure what solutions you might be able to propose to the committee. As far as equipment goes, I would think you prepared a number of reports.
4:20 p.m.
Maj Ray Wiss
Yes, quite a few.
The ultrasound is my pet project. It's what I know the most about. So my recommendations are based on that.
I would point out that after my first mission in the field, I made multiple recommendations. All of them were implemented before my second trip. The medications, devices and instruments we had at the FOB during my second mission were exactly what I wanted. I couldn't have asked for anything more.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Jean-François Larose NDP Repentigny, QC
With respect to post-traumatic stress syndrome, did you make any recommendations based on your observations in terms of tools and training?
4:20 p.m.
Maj Ray Wiss
In the field of post-traumatic stress syndrome, we're the best in the world. Bring us people, tell them to come and see us. Even though the front pages of The Gazette in Montreal and the Journal de Québec claim that the Canadian Forces mistreated Sergeant Tremblay, tell people to come forward anyways, because the vast majority will receive excellent care from the Canadian Forces.
