National Defence Committee on April 8th, 2014

[BGen Jean-Robert Bernier]

No. But the question is do we need uniformed clinical psychologists and does the requirement to deploy them in deployed operations exist sufficiently that it would be of sufficient benefit. And that is what Colonel McLeod's working group is evaluating right now, with the report to be out by the end of April.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

Thank you, Ms. Murray.

We're now into the second round. The first questioner will be Ms. Gallant and I will be taking the second slot, so I'm wondering if Ms. Murray can replace me here as the chair so that I can ask my questions from a more appropriate place. When Ms. Murray is here, we'll start with this round.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Point of order.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Joyce Murray]

This isn't sneaking into my time, is it?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

No. This isn't on your time.

I believe that in the rules—and I should have brought my book with me because I can find it really quickly—the person who is sitting in the chair has to stay in the chair unless they're not available. So, in the event that our current chair is ill today, unavailable, you are the first vice-chair. First vice-chair is in the chair and has to maintain the chair position, unless, of course, they need to leave, in which case our second vice-chair would take the seat.

I don't believe—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Let's check with the rules, and maybe the clerk can help out.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Yes. I believe that if the chair is in the room, they need to be in the chair.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

You may be correct.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

I would definitely allow for the chair to ask questions from the chair.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

That's fine. We've done this before; that's why I just did it again.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

And I'm just thinking that—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

If it's not possible, I can ask them from here, that's not a problem.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

You always have your prerogative, but if there's time left near the end of the meeting, you can ask your questions.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

If there's time left at the end of the meeting, they don't just hand over the gavel.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Jack Harris]

I think in order to just deal with this question, we will go ahead with Ms. Gallant, and we'll see if we can get some information.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay. Through you to the Surgeon General, are you tracking the length of time between the point at which OSI patients first present and onset of symptoms? So a patient presents and gives you the date when they first started feeling the symptoms at the point at which treatment is actually sought by the member. It's to be able to confirm that we're providing empirical data that there's a positive correlation between early treatment and the likelihood that a member's career in the military will not be adversely affected.

[BGen Jean-Robert Bernier]

Thank you, ma'am.

We track wait times for care. We also have the Statistics Canada study going on right now tracking people who don't present for care and the reasons why. We're establishing, as part of the strategy, some quality assurance, a clinical outcomes management tool that will help us look at and map responsive care, presentation care—from the presentation on—the response to care against standardized reference tables, and models that have been established as to what the normal response should be to help us identify folks who are falling off the recovery curve, to intervene, to have a red alert trigger for those cases where recovery is not consistent, where response to care isn't consistent with what should be expected based on the available evidence for that kind of clinical case.

I'm not sure if that addresses what you're asking.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

It would be helpful to demonstrate to Canadian Armed Forces members that the outcome is more positive the sooner treatment is sought for an OSI.

In terms of the responsibility of health care, if a Canadian Armed Forces member is hurt off duty, off DND property while not in theatre, is that CAF member supposed to report to a base hospital, a military doctor? Or is there another source of medical coverage in place?

[BGen Jean-Robert Bernier]

Everybody is issued a Blue Cross card, or a third party insurer card, so that no matter where they are—even if they're on holiday in Thailand—they'll have all their health care paid for. For regular force members, full-time members of the armed forces, the armed forces aren't only responsible for injuries and illnesses related to military service, but any injury or illness for any reason.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

If they're not on duty, it is the Blue Cross then that covers them. Is that what you're just saying?

[BGen Jean-Robert Bernier]

If there's a military facility nearby, and it's open, they go there and they'll get care. It depends on what kind of care. If it's a traumatic injury that requires immediate surgery and critical care, then it would be 911, but all costs are covered by the defence department. So anything that's available in the community, whether in Canada, overseas, with allies, etc., anything that's required would be covered by the defence department.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay. Does a separate insurer have responsibility for disabilities and care when an incident or illness occurs while members are not on duty?

[BGen Jean-Robert Bernier]

They don't for full-time regular force members. There are insurance programs available—for example, SISIP, the service income supplement insurance program—but for their care, so long as they're members of the armed forces, any element of their health care would be the responsibility of the defence department. Some of it might be provided by a third party, but the cost would be the responsibility of the defence department, and arranging for the care would be the responsibility of the defence department.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

If someone in a motorcycle accident, off duty, in the city, off base, had to go a civilian hospital because it was closer, then that would be covered by Blue Cross. If that person suffered a severe disability and could not return to work, or even if they could return to work, the disability insurance may come directly through DND—or through SISIP?