National Defence Committee on May 15th, 2014

[Gary Walbourne]

I don't think so. I know the game rules going in. I know what my left and right arcs of authority are. I think I have enough latitude there to do the job I need to do.

It is critical for me to be able to work with the department and the Canadian Armed Forces to bring change. I don't think standing outside and casting in stones is going to help the role and what we're trying to accomplish as an ombudsman's office. Would it make things a little easier if I were over in another venue and I reported to Parliament? Maybe. But I do believe with the proper approach and the right management style, we're good to go with what we have.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

As I understand it, your appointment is not at pleasure but on good behaviour, which is a step higher.

[Gary Walbourne]

While on good behaviour....

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

In that light, and getting back for one brief question on the Valcartier investigation, with regard to the authorization given by the minister, were there any qualifications or limitations or restrictions on the type of investigation recommendations you would make?

[Gary Walbourne]

There were none whatsoever.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you. I'm glad to hear that.

Sir, I was listening to your comments regarding the questions you were asked on the sexual assaults. You said this is a matter for police and prosecutions. Of course the sexual assaults themselves are. There is, however, the matter of an institutional response. People might be discouraged from reporting. If people are not complaining, why are they not? There is also the fact that the victims, not the perpetrators, are either isolated or moved somewhere else.

I understand there's a recruitment drive under way to seek to have 25% females in the Canadian Forces. I would suggest that will fail totally if something is not done to ensure that the military is a safe place for women. I suspect there are a great number of matters that would be under the purview of the ombudsman's office if you were asked about them or someone complained about them. Do you agree with that?

[Gary Walbourne]

As I said, I do believe there's a role for us here. I do believe we bring a certain impartiality and oversight to that type of review. I agree with you 100% that there has to be opportunity for people to come forward. I'm hoping that, when the terms of reference are known, this external committee is going to look at not only solutions to the issues but whatever plans we are putting in place to move us forward and away from this type of behaviour.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Sir, something that comes up often to individual members of Parliament, whether they are members of this committee or not, is the issue of deficiencies in the grievance processes in the military. The process is lengthy, there are many delays, and at the end of the day, there's not enough authority, sometimes to the point that filing a grievance is a waste of time. Do you have any knowledge of the problems within the grievance procedure, and do you think the process needs more attention?

[Gary Walbourne]

I think it is something that needs more attention. I'm aware of the situation. I think the report that just came out from the committee also has concerns about it. Alain has some information maybe that he could share with us. But yes, we're aware of the issue and the timelines. It has been of great concern for us, and I think this office has reported on it several times in the past.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

Thank you very much.

We're at about 11:59.

You can get back to Mr. Harris in writing with regard to his question, or add anything to the questions that may have come up during the committee.

The chair just wants to make an observation, especially for folks out there, after over a quarter-century of policing. I'm glad you mentioned education as a way to reduce stigma and to bring awareness to issues like sexual assault and domestics. One of the things we find, as you can recall, in our general population is that there's a great amount of advertising by both levels of government that as a woman, you don't have to put up with domestic assaults. There is assistance for you out there. You don't have to accept it. I think the same with sexual assault, especially what we found in policing, sexual assaults against males, because you were expected to deal with it, sort of the macho....

I raise that question, because as we begin to educate people in the military, as we begin to say that there is no stigma for them to come forward and report this, and that there should not be a career limitation because they reported something that was inappropriate, I just would like to make sure that we don't think that it's on the rise. It probably was already there, but we're addressing the problem by having people who have been victimized...first, to stop the revictimization and then to remind them that it is inappropriate to do those things.

The chair just wonders if you would like to respond to that in writing, because we are well over the hour, if you feel a requirement to respond to that last statement and question of mine to you.

I want to thank you very much for appearing before us today, both gentlemen, Mr. Walbourne and Mr. Gauthier. The chair wishes you most success in your new role, and hopefully we can make the situation better because of your presence in that role.

The chair wants to suspend for a few moments, but I'll remind the committee that we'd like to start off immediately because we do have the report before us. You will be issued that report and we want to get at it as quickly as we can.

Thank you very much.

[Proceedings continue in camera]