National Defence Committee on May 27th, 2014

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

All right.

Sir, perhaps you can help us.

[Col Robert P. Delaney]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Harris, thank you for that question.

The proactive approach of trying to, obviously, prevent any of these occurrences has a police role to it. That's the community policing aspect of what we do. From my perspective and from the perspective of the Canadian Forces Military Police Group, at the grassroots level, and at our detachment level of policing, we need to be out there in that military community developing that trust.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Do they complain to you directly, sir, or do they complain to their superior officer?

[Col Robert P. Delaney]

They could do either. They could come to the military police directly. They can either come to—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Does that happen more often than the other way?

[Col Robert P. Delaney]

I would suggest to you that the majority would come through either the victim themselves or colleagues of the victim, etc.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

They would come directly to you?

[Col Robert P. Delaney]

About one quarter of cases would come through the commanding officer or the chain of command. A lot of them are coming indirectly via the victims themselves or the victim's friends or those who they've come forward to. Once that information comes to light, of course, we immediately launch an investigation into it.

Part of my role is making sure they're comfortable bringing that information forward. So we need to be out there active in the communities ensuring that folks understand how we do business and how we nurture the victims of these crimes and how we conduct our investigations in pursuit of justice.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

General Cathcart, you will note from my questions that I have a concern about reporting. General Lawson seems to indicate that the reports for 2012, 2013, and 2014 have been filed either with him or with the minister, which would mean that the minister hasn't tabled them.

Where exactly are those reports at the moment? Will they be tabled in the House as required by the statute?

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

Thank you for that question. I was confused about the question and the response. If you're talking about the annual reports that I'm responsible for as Judge Advocate General, they are not with the minister. Those are my reports. They are still being worked on. They're close to completion. I take full responsibility for not meeting the timeline as set out to do so on an annual basis. I can go into great detail as to the reasons why. The short answer is that there were many other equal military justice priorities, not the least of which you're familiar with, Mr. Harris, dealing with legislation such as Bill C-15.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Given all of that, can you tell us when these reports will be presented to the minister?

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

I can't give you the exact date, but it will be very shortly.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

There's some confusion, as I also pointed out, in terms of the recording. There seems to have been more information about sexual assaults per se in the first report you tabled as JAG than in the most recent one. Now, under the summary convictions, they're included with the 691 charges that include events involving drugs and alcohol.

Why would you do that? Isn't it important for us, as legislators and the public, to know the state in the military with respect to sexual assaults and how many prosecutions there are?

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

Right.

Again, I thank you for your—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

With respect to your response, I don't think you'll be able to give it in six seconds, so we'll get that response in writing.

Ms. Gallant, for five minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

It was established previously that when a sexual assault occurs between serving members on military property or in theatre, the justice process is court martial.

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

Again, it depends on the question. If we're talking about an investigation and then a charge being laid specifically for sex assault, in most circumstances it would be handled by the military justice system, but it could also be handled by the civilian justice system.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

How is civilian justice system versus military justice system determined?

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

Again, there are two main areas in which it's determined. First is at the initial investigation stage, because particularly in Canada, we have multiple police forces that have jurisdiction. As the provost marshal indicated, if it's two members downtown, for example, then the starting position would be civilian police. If it's on base it's usually ours.

Once the charge is laid there can be further discussion at the prosecutorial level. The director of military prosecutions can chat with the local crown to determine if there are reasons, usually based on a complex series, such as the state of the victim, the best interest of justice, to either have the case heard in a civilian court or in a court martial.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

The reason I ask this is that people who have gone through the court martial system—the victims who actually were believed, had the charges go forth and the whole process occur, and the person was found guilty—still believe this process should be taken outside the chain of command.

We've seen that even the highest of ranking officers at a wing has not only been a serial assaulter, rapist, but eventually also a murderer.

When a complaint comes forward, what assurances can you give even the newest, lowest-ranking person who comes forth with such a complaint, and charges are laid, that given the forum of a court martial, their complaint will be taken seriously and with the full force of the law?

[MGen Blaise Cathcart]

I can give full assurance, as a superintendent of the administration of the military justice system, that our system is the equal and, in some cases, better in terms of resource availability for both victims and accused than the civilian side.

Our standards and the way in which the investigators work, and the police, the judges, are exactly the same as a civilian court would be using.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

We've also seen a case in the news where people who are not even recruits yet, who are applying to be recruits, have gone through an experience of sexual assault by the doctor.

At what point are new recruits educated on what is acceptable in the military in terms of misconduct, and what is not, and what they can do if they find themselves in a situation where they have been the subject of an assault?

[MGen David Millar]

Thank you, ma'am, very much.

Once recruited, as soon as they enter into boot camp, that is our fist enculturation of defence ethics. Indeed, that's when the actual formal courses are given to all our recruits. As General Lawson mentioned, there are four sessions in about a nine-week course of boot camp in which that enculturation occurs.

From that point on in your entire career—as an apprentice, as a journeyman, as a lead hand, as a senior NCO, and then finally as a chief warrant officer—you continue to be imbued with our ethics, our culture, and the formal processes of programs that we have to maintain that free and transparent workplace.

So it's throughout your career.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you.

Those are all my questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Norlock]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Sgro, for five minutes.