Evidence of meeting #35 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was coalition.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Okay, thank you.
When our Royal Canadian Air Force is in theatre, how does it operate? This is going where Mr. Harris went. Do we operate on a grid formation where there's air space that is Canada's or are we working more in collaboration with our allies? How does the theatre work in terms of our air space versus others? Is it a grid format or how would you—
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
No, not at all. It certainly depends where the air activity is going to be. Allies are interchangeable, by and large. Our ISR assets will not only operate and support Canadian missions, they'll support other allied missions. It really is interchangeable and that air tasking order, that process I was talking about, assigns targeting and specific areas for operations. It indicates where our tankers would position themselves in the air space and our tankers are providing fuel to a number of different platforms, not just Canadian.
It's very dynamic, it's far from a set grid box, as you were suggesting.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
Thank you.
It had been mentioned that ISIL has now split into smaller groups. What do you reckon their objective is now, given that they don't appear to be on the move the way they were before? Clearly, they have significant territory already and sizable cities under their control. Is there a sense of their military objective?
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
Their objective is unchanged. Their objective is Baghdad as the eastern front of their view of what their caliphate may or may not look like. So, while we talk about dispersed, while it may be a little more challenging for them to take that on, that remains their objective, to the best of our understanding.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
What do you think their strategy is? Is it to attempt to wait out allied air force and lie low? Is it to attempt to advance when they can? What's the sense? Are we seeing less of the movement now and what do you think their strategy is to try to move forward and move around or into Baghdad?
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
I don't think I would venture to hypothesize what their strategy may be. Nonetheless, they remain committed to moving forward. We're seeing advances. They're being pushed back in other areas. They're a significant fighting entity even in a more dispersed view that I spoke to, but I wouldn't be able to talk about their evolving tactics.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
You mentioned that Iraqi forces are not keen to see, I guess we'll call them western ground troops. I don't want to misquote you here or misspeak on your behalf, but is that accurate?
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
The Iraqi security forces want to be responsible for the fight.
Director General, International Security Policy, Department of National Defence
But I wouldn't say only western, though. They don't want any foreign forces.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
That's fair enough.
I'll come back to you gentlemen. Thank you.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you, Chair.
Perhaps we can follow up on that, in terms of the capability of the Iraqi army. Mr. Chisu talked about the large forces and equipment that it had, although in looking at a paper prepared by the Library of Parliament, we're talking 60 or 70 tanks and perhaps a large number of Humvees. The army that they defeated appeared to have just disappeared by virtue of the commanders disappearing.
We read about what was left behind by the Americans, a million-soldier ground force owned by the Iraqi army. Is that the army we're talking about that's going to take the ground fight? That seems to be a very large number of soldiers when we're talking about maybe 20,000 or 50,000 fighters that ISIS has both in Iraq and in Syria.
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
In the numbers that I'm aware of, the size of the Iraqi security forces before ISIL came across, would have been about 250,000. It is—
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
It is the Iraqi security forces writ large. That was evident. It was about 250,000. There's no doubt that, in the initial attacks and essentially the withdrawal, those numbers have significantly reduced. The actual fighting force of the Iraqis is significantly less than that right now.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
In terms of their ability to reform, is there a command issue with respect to the ability to put commanders in the field who are trusted and capable of leading?
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
No, I think that what we're working with now...our view of what the Iraqi security forces look like right now is that they are capable, the challenge being that they have not been training to the extent you would expect in advance of major combat operations. Certainly, part of the strategy is for allies and the coalition to provide a level of training to Iraqi security forces such that they could take the fight for themselves.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Again to follow on from Mr. Williams' questions about the coordination of airspace, is there an AWACS running air traffic control? Is that how it's commanded on the ground? Or is that done out of Tampa as well?
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
It's a mixture of ground radar, but there are air assets from a number of different countries, AWACS and Australian Wedgetail, for example.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
One of the issues that has come up is the need for Canada to obtain further munitions and equipment, these smart bomb kits, etc. One question raised was the cuts to stockpile that Canada had, despite the urging of Public Works. Has that proven difficult to manage? Can you tell us about that? Supposedly there was a 38% cut to stockpiles of Canadian munitions. Has that been corrected, and has that resulted in a greater cost?
Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
In the context of the present campaign that we're in and the smart bombs that I spoke of, there certainly is no shortage. We have plenty of them, and they're in theatre and ready to be used appropriately. There certainly is no short-term or long-term impact with respect to our CF weapons.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
I have a minute and a half. Perhaps I'll use it to go back to the cost issue.
We've heard rough estimates in the neighbourhood of $300 million. We've seen reports about Libya in the range of $350 million as the actual cost of that mission here. I guess the question that I have, if we are talking about costs in that range, is what the effect is on other defence department programs. We've already had complaints about the military having difficulty meeting training requirements and readiness because of the budget cuts and that matter. Are you anticipating anything like that? Or is there any—
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, and I've brought this up numerous times in the past, there are certain questions that witnesses aren't able to answer. I refer to pages 1068-1069 in chapter 20 of O'Brien and Bosc; it says:
...committees ordinarily accept the reasons that a public servant gives for declining to answer a specific question or series of questions which involve the giving of a legal opinion, which may be perceived as a conflict with the witness’ responsibility to the Minister, which are outside of their own area of responsibility, or which might affect business transactions.
I think in this situation, budget questions are outside the area of responsibility of General Hood and his colleagues.
