National Defence Committee on March 25th, 2015

[Capt(N) S.A. Virgin]

I could take up the rest of my time here, I'm sure, to answer that.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

I think you have three minutes.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Capt(N) S.A. Virgin]

Okay.

Overall, it's fantastic. I've been in the service for 33 years. I spent the first 25 years in the submarine service. As a young lad in Toronto, I joined the navy to become a submarine captain, and the training is, in short, phenomenal. There is training and there is education. There's professional military education. I have had the opportunity to get a bachelor's degree, I've attended international studies in Beijing, I've attended Canadian Forces colleges that give a university and even post-graduate-level education. Plus, within the navy, I've had an immense amount of training year-in and year-out, almost month-in and month-out.

Whether it's tactical training for proficiency on a particular weapon system, professional military education, or studying past wars, it's an amazing experience, and there's an amazing amount of training and education available to all the officers in the navy.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much.

You mentioned the submarines. We had some very old ones and now have some newer, fixed-up ones. Based on your extensive naval experience, how would you evaluate Canada's current maritime fleet? Also, would you like to make a comment on Canada's national shipbuilding project?

[Capt(N) S.A. Virgin]

On the former I can speak; on the latter, I can't, really. I left the submarine service about 10 years ago, and I left the general navy ranks, so to speak, seven years ago.

With respect to the overall maritime component of the Canadian Armed Forces, if I understand your question, it's superb. As it's designed, it's multi-purpose, so we have capability on, underneath, and above the surface. We have the capability to protect globally. We have the capability to protect at home. I think the vision that was set out for the navy probably a number of years ago when I was a young officer, has held true. We've been able to procure, build, and maintain a very balanced fleet to answer to the vast amount of oceans that we have and the vast amount of missions that get asked of us.

With respect to the shipbuilding strategy, I must admit that since I've joined special forces I've been fairly focused on that for the last two years, and I admittedly have not really tracked some of those larger issues.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

The reason I ask that question, of course, is that, knowing some of your more recent background as you indicated in your opening remarks, I know that people in the Canadian Armed Forces maintain friendships, and you must still have buddies in the Royal Canadian Navy and still keep abreast of what is going on. Feel free in any of the questions that come up to rely on what you've been told, because in my previous job, although I've been gone for 15 years, I still try to keep up with how things are going.

I have one last quick question. How do the operations of CANSOFCOM, both domestically and internationally, contribute to the operational success of other units in the Canadian Armed Forces?

[Capt(N) S.A. Virgin]

They contribute greatly. It depends on the exact mission set that we would be talking about, for example, but in the spectrum of operations that SOF would be involved in, it could be from very discrete, non-kinetic small teams up to support to larger CF operations. We work extensively with the air force, the army, and the navy within their respective domains. Most theatres have a joint component where you would have army, navy, air force, and SOF, and we enable them in some of their operations, and they greatly enable us. We can't get to where we need to go without the support of other elements of the Canadian Forces, by and large.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Mr. Norlock.

Mr. Harris, please, for five minutes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Captain. I'm struggling to find questions that you can answer here, but I'll do my best.

We're glad to have you here. I want to perhaps ask you to give us some history here, but special ops in Canada is relatively new, I should think, at least as an amalgamated unit that we're talking about here today. JTF2, of course, was the domestic terrorism response unit, I think, that was the beginning of this. It was designed to respond to incidents such as kidnappings or the takeover of a building or an airport, or these sorts of things. Am I correct about that? Was that the first element of this or does this go back much further?

[Capt(N) S.A. Virgin]

Yes. In the early nineties, JTF2 was created to take over from what was called CIRT, a component of the RCMP. They took over that counterterrorism domestic mandate in the early nineties.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

But now it is integrated with the other aspects of this, including an expeditionary capability such as we have in Iraq today.

[Capt(N) S.A. Virgin]

The unit itself has certainly evolved over time. Afghanistan was a big turning point for the evolution of JTF2. It is still a stand-alone unit. We have the five units. They are separate, but a number of the forces that we would deploy would be made up of elements from each of those five units that I described.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

These five units are under CANSOFCOM command at the moment?

[Capt(N) S.A. Virgin]

Yes, sir.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

You're the deputy commander.

[Capt(N) S.A. Virgin]

In 2006, as part of the transformation of the Canadian Armed Forces, it was determined that we needed a unified integrated joint, and more robust special operations capability, so CANSOFCOM, as a level-one entity within the CF reporting directly to the CDS, was created.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

You deal with the aviation squadron that is part of or at least under the command of those operated by the air force.

[Capt(N) S.A. Virgin]

Yes, that is true. They are one element that has a unique relationship. In the military lexicon, they're under the operational command of my commander. They are assigned to us in the direct support they do with regard to our missions, but they still have another parent-functional residual responsibility to the commander of the air force for airworthiness.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I guess the flying, air readiness, and all of those things would be dealt with by the air force, but the operational side is under your command.

[Capt(N) S.A. Virgin]

Exactly.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Okay. There is a domestic aspect of this, an extremely important one when you're talking specifically about the nuclear, biological, and chemical defence, which is potentially something very important, and extremely important on an urgent basis. All of this is probably on an urgent basis. I'm wondering about your suggestion that they're not a first responder, but they can act quickly, and then we have this provincial government having to ask the federal government to aid the civil power, and all of these things that are part of the way that the military works.

Does that inhibit a quick response? You're not a first responder, but I'm sure there are many parts of this country—and I'm sure you're aware of them as part of your response capability—where none of these facilities or capabilities exist. You would inevitably be the first responder, would you not?

[Capt(N) S.A. Virgin]

I don't think it would be fair to say that we would be the first responder. First responders—fire departments, paramedics, and municipalities—will respond in minutes, I would estimate, to a call. We don't have that level of readiness. I can't give you the specific number of minutes or hours that we keep our people at, but very quickly we would be able to be brought to bear.

We also have—in fact, under review at the moment—various mechanisms, such as, for example, with the CJIRU, an MOU with the RCMP. We're in the process of updating that MOU, but having a mechanism like that allows us to be called out with a phone call. Right now, we would take requests for assistance, but that can be done verbally, for example, with a phone call from the Minister of Public Safety to our minister. We'll be on the road very shortly after that.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

That's encouraging, and I hope that is more effective than what we've seen in some cases with search and rescue, which has caused problems in Labrador, for example. You may have heard about the problems up there with communication between different aspects, whether it be provincial, federal, or RCMP communications. I hope you don't have those in the case of a need for chemical, biological, or radiological problems.

In regard to your activity, are the only threats or incidents that you respond to necessarily attacks, or terrorist-related, or somebody seeking to use chemical, biological, or nuclear elements as a means of disruption? Would you also be available and would you respond to the kinds of things that we see in as chemical factories or perhaps a nuclear accident? Is that something that you would participate in as well?

[Capt(N) S.A. Virgin]

It's something that we could participate in. Normally what we would see happen is that if a municipal, provincial, or federal agency doesn't have the capability or the capacity, they could turn to us. For example, we could have a unique surveillance system, a robotic system. We do employ the highest of high technology so that our men and women are as well equipped as possible to deal with the unique challenges they have to deal with. There could be an example where, yes—