Evidence of meeting #53 for National Defence in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was procurement.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chief, Communications Security Establishment
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Conservative
Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
You mentioned in your presentation that you are a graduate of Stanford University in California, with a master's degree from the school of engineering. What was the field that you graduated in? What was the specialization? Master's degrees are for a specialization.
Chief, Communications Security Establishment
Thank you for the question.
As I mentioned, my undergraduate degree is from the University of Manitoba. I have a Bachelor of Commerce with honours from the University of Manitoba. My specialization there was operational research. If you'll allow me, I'll come back to what that means. I think my mother still doesn't quite understand what operational research is.
After graduating from the University of Manitoba and working as a defence scientist at Air Command when it was in Winnipeg, I went to Stanford University in California. At Stanford I studied operational research as well. I'm not sure how it's organized anymore, but at that time operational research was within the Faculty of Engineering. I have a Master of Science degree from Stanford University from the Faculty of Engineering in operational research.
There's a description that I often give my mother, and again, I'm not quite sure she's ever understood what exactly I graduated in. There are a lot of different definitions, but the one that I often come back to is that operational research is the discipline of applying advanced analytical methods to help make decisions. It's a subfield of mathematics. It's sometimes called management science or decision science. It has strong ties to computer science, statistics, and mathematics.
Conservative
Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
I was asking you because I also am a graduate in engineering and have a master's degree in engineering physics.
It is quite interesting that you went to Stanford, which is a very prestigious university with a very prestigious Faculty of Engineering.
Chief, Communications Security Establishment
It's always nice to meet another graduate from an engineering school.
Conservative
Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
You made a couple of references to your experience in working with the task force in Afghanistan. You were working in the field of information management and technology with this task force. I was there in 2007, so I know that was the beginning of the combat operations. They had just started in 2006 and 2007, and we were absolutely in a situation that we hadn't encountered until then.
How has this experience—and of course building on the relations with the task force in Afghanistan—contributed to your ability to carry out the responsibilities as the chief of CSE?
Chief, Communications Security Establishment
Thank you very much for that question.
In terms of my experience with the Afghanistan task force, I was the deputy minister of the Afghanistan task force at the Privy Council Office for about two and a half years. I was the second deputy minister of that task force. I served as the deputy minister of that task force from 2009 until 2012. As for how I believe my experience with the Afghanistan task force may contribute, and hopefully will contribute, to my role as the chief of CSE, it is about how our work on Afghanistan, in terms of the time that I was part of it, was very much a whole-of-government effort.
I sometimes reflect upon that. We hear a lot of talk these days about “whole-of-government”. It's a terminology that's used for a lot of different work. Actually, that makes me quite proud, because I believe that when the whole-of-government effort came into play, we really saw it in terms of the Government of Canada and the Canadian Forces work in Afghanistan. It was a true partnership, bringing together the military and the civilian organizations. In terms of the civilian organizations, whether it was from Foreign Affairs, the International Development Agency, or the Canada Border Services Agency, a lot of organizations came together with a common objective.
I hope that experience in terms of bringing together various skill sets and backgrounds and being able to apply all of our work collectively to serve the mandate that we have at CSE will serve me well, and I believe it will. In fact, I really have seen the power of that whole-of-government experience, having worked in Afghanistan.
I also was able to see the important role of the Canadian Armed Forces, and as I raised earlier in this discussion—
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. Are you trying to cut me off?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Peter Kent
No. I'm sorry if my facial expression was hurrying you, but finish your thought, please.
Chief, Communications Security Establishment
Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't want to use up someone else's time.
As for the important role of the Canadian Armed Forces, again, I mentioned earlier in my testimony this afternoon how important the work is between the CSE and the Canadian Armed Forces. I hope that will also serve me well in this position.
Conservative
Liberal
Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
First of all, I'd like to say congratulations, Ms. Bossenmaier, on your appointment as the new chief at the Communications Security Establishment.
Liberal
Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
My constituents in Kingston and the Islands are concerned about privacy as the CSE goes about its business, and in particular when it goes about its business of doings things like collecting metadata. I think they would like a leader of the CSE to understand that. I'd like you to talk about how you see the line between the work of collecting metadata and the protection of Canadians' privacy.
I'm not asking you about how the CSE conducts its operations, but I'm trying to get a sense of your judgement and your principles, because I'm sure there are cases where you have to make a judgement call when it comes to collecting data and protecting privacy. Could you just elaborate a bit on that and how you think about that problem?
Chief, Communications Security Establishment
Thank you for the question.
In my opening remarks, I talked a bit about some of my early impressions of CSE. Having been there now for approximately six weeks, one of the things that has struck me is the focus within the organization on the corollary issues of lawfulness and privacy.
As you know, the protection of Canadians' privacy is a key part of our act, of our legislation under the National Defence Act. We have an important role to protect the privacy of Canadians. Throughout our organization, in our policies, in our practices, in our training, and in the discussions I've had to date, protecting the privacy of Canadians is of critical importance. I see it, Mr. Chair, throughout the organization already in the short time that I've been there.
As I've mentioned, that will be a very important part of my job going forward. It will be not only to ensure that the mandate of CSE is met in terms of delivering high-quality cyber-defence and foreign intelligence for the Government of Canada, but, also, and again as part of our act, to ensure that the organization continues to be lawful and continues to keep the privacy of Canada at a very high priority.
That will continue to be my focus. I don't see it to be a conflict, actually. I see it to be that these are our mandates. It is ingrained in our legislation. It is something that, again, the organization is already very well attuned to. I mentioned our commissioner at CSE before. He has remarked about the culture of compliance that he has seen. Again, in the short time that I've been a part of the organization, I have already seen that. It will be an important priority.
I guess you asked me about my priority. It would be a really important priority for me to continue the legacy that I already see existing there and ensure that it continues in all of our work.
Liberal
Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Is there something about your background that you might like to highlight that would contribute to reinforcing that culture of protecting privacy as you go about necessary business?
Chief, Communications Security Establishment
As I mentioned, I have worked in the fields of information management and information technology in a number of different departments. The importance of protecting privacy not only of our own staff, of course, but of Canadians in the information that we are entrusted with is a very high priority.
Again, I reflect on my time at Foreign Affairs, when ensuring that we had secure communications and that the work of Foreign Affairs officers, wherever they were, was protected and being managed in terms of secure systems. I'll try to bring that experience as well to bear on this. Also, in my work at the Canada Border Services Agency, there was always a big focus on compliance and in terms of lawfulness and protecting privacy.
All of those pieces I will hopefully bring to bear in my job now as the chief of CSE. Again, it's really building on that foundation of privacy that I believe already exists there.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Peter Kent
Thank you very much. That's time, Mr. Hsu.
Now, Ms. Bossenmaier, we have the formality of the traditional question.
Colleagues, shall the chair report to the House that the committee has examined the qualifications and competence of Greta Bossenmaier to the position of chief of the Communications Security Establishment and finds her competent to perform the duties of her respective position?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Peter Kent
That's carried. Thank you.
We'll suspend for a moment as our next witness approaches the chair.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Peter Kent
All right, colleagues. In the interests of short time, we will proceed.
Again we return, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), to our study of the defence of North America. As you know, we have one witness from the Department of National Defence, Captain S.A. Virgin, the deputy commander of Canadian Special Operations Forces Command.
Colleagues, before we begin, I would caution you that Captain Virgin is unable to provide responses to any questions about the actual readiness levels on which the Canadian Joint Incident Response Unit operates. The CJIRU's specific capabilities can be discussed in broad terms, but the specific equipment used and their advantages and limitations, cannot be, including the size of the CJIRU and the conduct of a counterterrorism operation, besides a very high-level general overview. Finally, the domestic CBRN threat assessments in regard to these threats—colleagues, I'm sure you'll understand—are an RCMP and CSIS responsibility.
Captain Virgin is also placed to answer general questions about CANSOFCOM as they relate to the defence of North America, but again, I would caution you that similar caveats do apply.
Captain Virgin, welcome to our committee.
Your opening remarks, please, sir.
Capt N) S.A. Virgin (Deputy Commander, Canadian Special Operations Forces Command, Department of National Defence
Thank you.
Mr. Chair and honourable committee members, thank you for the chance to speak to you today on chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear—commonly referred to as CBRN—threats to Canada in the context of our Canadian special operations forces role in responding to them.
To start, I will set the stage with an overview, first situating the Canadian Special Operations Forces Command, or CANSOFCOM, into the rest of the Canadian Armed Forces. I will then talk about the role and evolution of the Canadian Joint Incident Response Unit, known as CJIRU, which is our CBRN unit located in Trenton, Ontario. Finally, within the limits of operational security, I will talk about how CJIRU would respond to a CBRN scenario here in Canada.
To start with, CANSOFCOM was created in 2006. The command could be regarded as an emerging capability within the wider CAF and is the organization chiefly responsible for all aspects of Canada's special operations forces. The commander of CANSOFCOM reports directly to the Chief of the Defence Staff and is the Canadian Armed Forces functional authority for counterterrorism. CANSOFCOM's purpose is to force-develop, force-generate, and, where required, force-employ special operations task forces capable of achieving tactical, operational, or strategic effects desired by the Government of Canada.
The enterprise is composed of a national headquarters and five distinct subordinate units or organizations, including Joint Task Force 2, which is a Canadian Armed Forces counterterrorism unit, 427 Special Operations Aviation Squadron, which is the command's rotary wing aviation squadron, as well as the Canadian Special Operations Regiment, which provides overt military SOF effects, including robust, flexible expeditionary forces. The command also has the Canadian Special Operations Training Centre, which is responsible for providing our common SOF-specific training as well as our command headquarters, located here in Ottawa.
Finally, the fifth unit that I would like to turn to is CJIRU, for a more detailed look at the CBRN component of what CANSOFCOM does.
When CANSOFCOM was established in 2006, the command incorporated existing capabilities, such as JTF2, for example. In other aspects, however, new units were formed or transformed into special operations forces. What was known at the time as the Joint Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Defence Company, part of the Joint Operations Group, was transitioned to become a specialized joint incident response unit focused on the CBRN threat.
The CJIRU was officially established in 2007. It is a highly skilled world-class formation of specialists that continues to evolve and grow toward a final operational capability for the Canadian armed forces.
The CJIRU has three key mandates. First and foremost, on the domestic front, the CJIRU supports the RCMP and the Public Health Agency of Canada in response to CBRN incidents. Second, the CJIRU also provides specialized CBRN support to CANSOFCOM forces both here in Canada and overseas. Finally, the CJIRU provides support to other CAF elements, including instruction, training, and education in any aspect of CBRN matters.
For operational security reasons, I am not in a position to provide in-depth details regarding the precise capabilities, mandate, or details regarding the conduct of operations; however, I can provide a general overview of the five roles that the men and women of CJIRU undertake.
First, they can sample and identify chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear agents. Simply confirming or denying the presence of these threats is paramount to the potential follow-on activities that may take place.
Second, the CJIRU can undertake CBRN surveillance, that is, to define the CBRN threat and determine the extent of the contamination.
Third, the CJIRU can perform decontamination and medical extraction. This is a rather precise and limited role. The CJIRU would not perform large-scale decontamination of an area or population. Rather, they can support the immediate force conducting operations in the area. For example, small teams of operators from the CJIRU would accompany counterterrorist forces during a mission in order to provide CBRN protection to other members of CANSOF.
Fourth, they can provide a CBRN incident command centre where they can coordinate and analyze all of the information related to a specific attack or threat, including modelling and projecting weather effects. This command centre would be complementary to the command and control centres of other government departments.
Finally, they can also perform CBRN explosive ordnance disposal, that is, destroying or rendering safe an explosive chemical, biological, or radiological device.
I'd now like to turn to how the CJIRU would be employed in reaction to a CBRN incident. It is important to note that special operations forces are not first responders. While we maintain very high readiness and are able to assist, the request for special forces as part of a Canadian Armed Forces request is a deliberate process. Disaster and emergency management is a scalable response that starts first with the organizations and first responders closest to the community where the incident occurs.
If an affected community or municipality cannot effectively manage the incident, normally they would seek additional capabilities from neighbouring communities. If more is needed, they would then seek support from the province, and only after those resources had been exhausted would the request come for support from the federal level.
Certainly there can be some scenarios under which CJIRU support could be asked for very quickly. In the case of police suspicion of an impending CBRN terrorist attack, a request for assistance could be made so that certain aspects of CJIRU's specialized skill sets could be deployed very quickly. CANSOFCOM has strong links with other government departments and agencies, and the whole-of-government team keeps each other informed about potential threats and concerns.
As well as supporting other SOF teams in a CBRN threat environment, the CJIRU, under the command and control of CANSOFCOM, provides direct support to other government departments and agencies through its position on the RCMP-led national CBRN response team. The national CBRN response team is led by the RCMP and supported by the Public Health Agency of Canada and the CJIRU. Some of the capabilities and roles are complementary between the CJIRU and the RCMP, whereas in other aspects the RCMP is the sole lead and authority, such as for forensics and evidence, as part of any response. The RCMP would certainly be the authority to expand upon the national team response remit.
In summary, the CJIRU is a key component of CANSOFCOM. They are a very agile and very specialized group who are highly trained and equipped to address CBRN threats. The unit is not a first responder element, and it is also not a large-scale consequence management organization. It is, however, very well situated to provide niche capability to sample and identify agents and toxins, determine the extent of potential contamination, and provide integrated support to other departments and agencies, from municipal to federal, and it is a capability of the Canadian Armed Forces that is still evolving.
I hope I have provided an adequate overview of the CJIRU's role within CANSOFCOM, the sorts of skills it can provide, and the ways in which it would be employed in an operational context.
With that, I would be pleased to answer your questions.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Peter Kent
Thank you, Captain.
Leading off our questions will be Mr. Norlock, please, for five minutes.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
To our witness, thanks for attending today. I had the privilege of touring one of your facilities in Trenton. I'm very impressed with the capabilities of the men and women under your command.
Since we're talking about CFB Trenton 8 Wing, and for the benefit of Canadians, would I say that it is strategically located there because Trenton is the hub of Canada's air force and because, if there were a necessity for the team to go somewhere, it facilitates the ease of their getting there in a timely manner?
Capt(N) S.A. Virgin
Thank you, Mr. Chair, for that question.
I wasn't in my position at the time the CJIRU was created in 2007. Its physical location is certainly one aspect that I believe would have been taken into consideration, but at that time there were a number of factors, from proximity to the airlift capability in 8 Wing and to some of the elements that transformed, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, to become CJIRU, which were roughly in that geographical vicinity, as I understand it. A number of factors led to their being physically set up in that location.
But like many and most of our special forces, they also need support from a larger base. They are not large teams. We have special forces in Petawawa, for example, and in Trenton, and they rely on their respective bases or wings for integral support.
There would have been a number of factors that drove that choice of final location.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Thank you.
As someone who has climbed the ranks within the Canadian navy, can you comment on the level of professional training available to members of the Royal Canadian Navy and the ability of Canadian Forces members at large to develop their professional careers?