National Defence Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2013

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

There is a very broad set of skills and competencies. Again, we work with the Chief of the Defence Staff, the CDS, to understand the requirements in the theatre of operation. There are health issues, but of course there is a much broader set of issues in terms of operations.

For example, General Beare, when he was in Afghanistan, needed support from the science and technology community to help stand up the training programs for the local forces. I don't know if General Beare would appreciate my quoting him, but he said something like, the mission of setting up the training programs for the local forces would not have been possible without our scientists. In this case, the scientists had expertise in operational research, how to design a training program and make all the parts fit. They were looking at a very high throughput of trainees on the ground there.

We also send scientists who, I would say, are more technologically focused. They are looking at new technologies with new sensors to detect new threats. We have also sent scientists who are experts in counter-IED measures, ways to protect vehicles and personnel from explosive devices, detecting them early.

It's a very broad range of expertise, again, that we're called upon to send by the CDS and the deputy minister.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Are the folks who go there involved in assessment of PTSD locally while the forces are on their mission?

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

One of the things we've done is that we've set up a comprehensive program to analyze vehicle damage from IEDs, and then to analyze the casualties. It's identifying the weaknesses, if there are any, in our vehicles, to be able to better protect the vehicles and therefore prevent injuries.

We have a comprehensive database of damage to vehicles, with meta information. We also have a comprehensive database of personnel injuries for us to better understand where we could improve protection, either through the vehicle or personal armour.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Okay, let me put this a different way. You do this research and presumably you give this information to the defence folks to deploy in the field. For example, when these folks come back, anything you're doing with respect to emotional and PTSD effects, you inform that. According to Mr. Norlock's question it was up to defence, so we'll find out next week how they use that research.

Can you tell me what the loop back is from the defence folks in the field? It seems to me it would be very good if we were proactive on the front end of this as well. We have to do a good job in treating our folks who come back, because these are ill and injured and we want to treat the PTSD impacts. However, it would also seem to me that should inform our research on how we educate our forces and their families before they're even deployed.

Can you tell me how that feedback loop comes back from the field to inform your research so we better prepare our soldiers when they go?

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

Thank you for the clarification.

Yes, indeed we do research on...we do that loop back and look at factors of resiliency in the military. We do surveys as to what factors contribute to more resilient members from a mental health perspective. I'll let Dr. Dursun expand a little on this.

[Dr. Sanela Dursun]

Thank you for the question.

Indeed we have a comprehensive research program that looks at the risk factors for PTSD and other operational stress injuries. The loop back you're asking about has a number of tools. We do have a tool to survey people while they are in the theatre. It's called a human dimension of operations. We get some information while we are there on how well they are doing. We also have different kinds of linkages of studies, for example, the recruit health questionnaire. When we first recruit them and as they progress through their career, including during deployment, we look at personality dimensions, for example, that are possible risk factors under stress in the theatre that might trigger or have a higher likelihood of PTSD.

In addition to that, as Dr. Fortin mentioned, our research is client-based. The providers of the services come back to us and say they would like research on XYZ. For any gap they identify, we have an annual research cycle that lets an organization come back and say they need to understand exactly how this works. For us, in a way, it's feedback on the gaps and what else we can try to understand and study.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Can you also give me an example of some of what the Canadian Institutes of Health Research is doing? I presume they would partner with you on some of these types of things.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

You'll have to be very brief.

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

The Canadian Institutes of Health Research is a new partnership that we started last year. We ran a pilot last year. We plan to expand that partnership this year and in coming years.

One of the things they are doing, for example, is the genomics work on detection of tools for early diagnosis.

[The Chair, Conservative, Peter Kent]

Thank you, Mr. Allen.

Ms. Duncan, please, it's your turn.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses. I appreciate hearing your testimony.

I'm looking for a yes or no on this question. As DRDC reduces its projects, have any studies related to the care of ill and injured Canadian Armed Forces been cancelled?

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

Yes or no. We're in the middle of planning for 2014-15, so the work plans have not been crystallized yet for April 1, 2014. So far, we have not applied reductions to the unit called military personnel research and analysis; we have not reduced personnel in that unit.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Dr. Fortin, to be clear, have we lost any projects to date relating to the care of ill and injured Canadian Armed Forces?

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

To my knowledge, we have not lost any projects.

As Dr. Dursun mentioned, projects are reviewed every year as a normal cycle of adjusting our work plans to meet the requirements of the surgeon general and the CMP.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I understand that.

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

There's always a natural evolution of programs.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

But so far none of them have been lost.

I'm going to ask a second question. As DRDC reduces its projects, are there any studies related to the care of ill and injured Canadian Armed Forces members that are expected to be cancelled?

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

To my knowledge, to this point, there are no studies expected to be cancelled because of a reduction.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you so much.

In his testimony, Colonel Homer Tien, Canadian Armed Forces trauma surgeon and military trauma research chair at Sunnybrook, noted that one of Canada's research priorities is MTBI, mild traumatic brain injury, including chronic pain issues and rehabilitation. What are the resources that DRDC is directly funding for MTBI in terms of personnel and funding ?

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

The issue of MTBI, mild traumatic brain injury, is actually part of the new work we are doing with the Canadian Institutes of Health Research.

Your question is very interesting, because it makes the assessment of exactly how many resources are allocated a little bit more challenging. We fund CIHR, which in turn provides funding to university scientists across the country to focus in part on MTBIs, mild traumatic brain injuries. The salaries of university scientists are paid by Canadian universities, of course, so it's difficult to compute the contribution of universities to that effort.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

No, and I understand that. Could you tell me what DRDC is contributing and what CIHR is contributing in terms of personnel and resources?

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

That's a more detailed question than I can answer today, but I'd be happy to provide numbers.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Could you table that?

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

I'd be happy to provide that information to the committee.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Very good. Thank you.

How many projects are looking at MTBI?