National Defence Committee on Nov. 1st, 2018

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I have one very quick question for both Mrs. Fynes and Colonel Perron.

I agree that we want to remove self-harm from the National Defence Act. The problem I have is that paragraph 98(c) says “wilfully maims or injures himself or any other person”. We definitely want to make sure that those who try to hurt themselves are exempted and treated. It's a cry for help, and we don't want to stigmatize mental health and we want to ensure OSI and PTSD get treated.

Colonel, from your experience, should we still maintain and amend that section so at the very least those who maim and injure others, even if the other person is saying “please hurt me”, would still face an indictable offence.

[LCol (Ret'd) Jean-Guy Perron]

I'm no expert on section 98, to be honest. I haven't looked at it. If we look at what paragraph 98(c) says, we see it's an offence to injure someone—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Including yourself.

[LCol (Ret'd) Jean-Guy Perron]

Including yourself, but if we focus on the other person, which I think you were leading up to, we have numerous other offences—assaults, attempted murder, name it—that would penalize you for the action you've committed toward the other individual that are captured in a way by paragraph 98(c), so we could reach the same result.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you for that. I appreciate that.

[Pascal Lévesque]

Mr. Chair, may I?

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

You have 30 seconds, please.

[Pascal Lévesque]

I would just like to point out that members of the military are not allowed to strike or associate to defend their rights. When scrutinizing their rights, it's important to take all aspects into account, beyond party politics.

I did a comparison between disciplinary prison law and military law. To a certain degree, prison law better protects individuals' rights because the proceedings are recorded and, in the case of serious penalties, the decision-maker is independent. There is also the fact that individuals sometimes have the right to be represented by a lawyer. Canada would be in a rather unique position if it were to give those who break the law more rights than those who defend it abroad.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you all very much for appearing today, and a special thank you goes to Corporal Stuart Langridge's family. You added important value to this discussion, and we're very privileged to have had you here today.

The meeting is adjourned.