Evidence of meeting #122 for National Defence in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was armed.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Julie Dzerowicz Davenport, Lib.
Thank you, General Vance, for being here. It's a pleasure to meet you for the first time. I'm a fairly new committee member.
My first question I think might be slightly odd, but it's a curiosity for me.
How has Operation Impact affected our relationship with Turkey, if it has in any way? I know we have been involved with the Kurds, and I think they see them as a bit of a problem, so I just wanted to see if there have been any implications for us on that side.
11:45 a.m.
Gen Jonathan Vance
It's interesting. I've been asked that question very rarely but it's a good one.
Turkey is an important ally of Canada. It's a NATO ally, and they have a unique and important perspective on that part of the world. They live in a tough neighbourhood and they're dealing with difficult challenges inside their own country, so it's a good question and I'm glad you asked it.
I think our relationship with Turkey has grown stronger as a result of what we've done. The Kurds we trained who work with the peshmerga are not associated with those Kurds who the Turks are arrayed against in terms of the terrorist acts against their country. I did go through a consultation with the Turkish chief of defence as we laid out the scope of our mission, and he's quite comfortable.
11:45 a.m.
Davenport, Lib.
That's great. Thank you.
Very recently this committee travelled to the UN. The message we heard from them was that they were overwhelmingly very positive that Canada's back supporting peace operations and that our contributions matter.
Can you give us an update on what we have achieved so far and what we are working on when it comes to the Canadian Armed Forces re-engaging with the United Nations?
11:45 a.m.
Gen Jonathan Vance
I'm ill-equipped to give you the full range because Global Affairs Canada and our United Nations mission are doing an awful lot of work and supporting the UN as an institution. The armed forces continue to provide highly trained troops to a number of UN missions, principally in Africa but also in the Middle East. I think we are doing a great job in Mali, providing an essential asset with great Canadians providing medical evacuation and tactical aviation logistics support to a mission that needed it. That was very much welcomed, not only by the UN but by those nations who've been bearing that burden by themselves for a while, as was the process of conceiving the smart pledge concept that would provide some support to the UN as they sought to ensure a continuation of that capability. So far it has worked.
We've asked a number of allies but we certainly asked Romania if they would be interested. They've indicated they are. We can see into the future where that mission will benefit from continued highly technical and capable forces to support that really key enabler to that mission. Otherwise, you've heard the government pledge other capabilities from a quick reaction force, to training, to the Elsie initiative.
I'd like to highlight that. It is important for the United Nation contingents that go on operations to be highly capable so we will be in a training mode. We're still working through the process to determine who and where they will go. We will need to develop our expertise to help them, particularly as it relates to where they're going to conduct their operations. Nonetheless, to train them in good military skills and support them as they try to achieve a more positive gender balance within our forces, which has been proven an advantage on UN operations, is an ambition for Canada, the Canadian Armed Forces, the Elsie initiative and Global Affairs.
I think all of that together is why the UN would be quite pleased with where we're at.
11:50 a.m.
Richard Martel Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
Good morning. I am happy to have you with us.
Iraq has been embroiled in a conflict for nearly two decades. I would like to know what barometer you are using to determine when you should pull Canadian forces from Iraq.
11:50 a.m.
Gen Jonathan Vance
It is difficult to answer that question.
If the conditions are such that the Canadian Forces are no longer of value, I think it would be indicated by a number of things: the Iraqi government itself, our allies and coalition partners, and most importantly to me, the wishes of the Government of Canada. I continue to monitor the operation, the region and the reasons we're there.
At some point in the future I would look forward to being able to provide the advice that Iraq has come far enough and Daesh has gone backwards enough that we don't need the military forces there anymore. We're not at that point right now. In an environment and in a region that's affected by so many variables, I couldn't possibly point to where military forces are not required internationally or where, as a subset of that, the Canadian Armed Forces would not be required. It would be pure speculation.
11:50 a.m.
Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
Do you think the climate in Iraq has improved a lot? We know there is still a great deal of pressure for them to take back control of the country.
Of course, we are trying to maintain a certain stability by providing assistance, but we know that, internally, the adversary always tries to take back control of the country.
How are our troops managing that situation? Is the tension in terms of regaining control of the country palpable or is the climate rather steady?
11:50 a.m.
Gen Jonathan Vance
Thank you, sir.
Given where we are in the conflict right now, I think the tension and potential around the resurgence of Daesh is a real thing. That is to say, we cannot assume away anything about Daesh. They will try and are trying to recover. They could re-emerge. It's unlikely at this juncture, but they could. Even if they didn't, in the process of trying, they would cause damage, harm and fear to the population.
When you speak of climate, what I am seeing is a government seized of trying to be as inclusive as possible, including in how they appoint their ministers. The secret will be—and I'm no expert on the governance of any nation, let alone Iraq—to ensure that those grievances by any segment of the population are addressed and that what we would call “good order and government” spreads across the country, including in all manner of ethnic divisions. They also need to ensure those things that we assume to be part of good order and government: a police force that conducts itself correctly, a military that conducts itself correctly and is professionalized, a judiciary, and indeed, right up through the ministers of government. I think that is the ambition of the Government of Iraq. That's what I'm seeing.
I think we're at the stage where that ambition needs to be supported. That is what they are asking for, the support to do that. It remains to be seen how smoothly that will be implemented, how successfully it will be implemented, but I believe that there is great reason for assessing the climate to be positive in that regard.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
General Vance, it's always good to see you. It's always very informative. Also, thank you for all of your service.
General, in your opening statement, you referenced the 98% of territory that has now been taken from the control of Daesh. I'm curious about the other 2%. Could we perhaps get a little clarity? When we reference the 2%, is that to embrace the sort of pockets that re-emerge, such as a village getting taken over once again here or there, as opposed to an actual zone that is controlled by Daesh?
11:55 a.m.
Gen Jonathan Vance
I acknowledge that it is a slightly inexact way of describing what has gone on. ISIL exists, Daesh exists with some coherence, at a very small size, controlling small amounts of territory in the Euphrates River valley, and it's mostly in Syria. As a phenomena, they've lost mostly everything, and there are some cleanup operations going on, largely outside of Iraq.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you.
Daesh had a long list of crimes against humanity, but perhaps the most horrific was the genocide against the Yazidis. In your opening remarks, you talked about people returning to their homes.
What is the security situation in the Yazidi traditional homelands? Are there any special security measures in that area, considering what Daesh had done throughout that region?
11:55 a.m.
Gen Jonathan Vance
Much of that occurred in the border area between Iraq and Syria. I know and understand the conflict in Iraq, I understand the conflict in Syria as well, but as it relates to our operations in Iraq we are taking no specific measures. We are taking all of the measures necessary in the region where we are operating to support Iraqi security forces in maintaining security. That is being done by other people including those other allies, including those in Yazidi territory.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
General, a number of committee members, and I included, have had the opportunity to visit our troops in Ukraine. We're taking part in Operation Unifier. We're very proud of the work they are doing there. Ukraine is a NATO ally in many ways. They are a NATO shield today against Russian aggression against the liberal democratic west.
Interestingly, when we met with Canadian officers—and we're proud of the training they're providing to the Ukrainian military—over and over we would hear how they were actually learning as well. Because it's a very different form of warfare that's taking place in Ukraine's east, in the Donbas region, my understanding is that many of those lessons learned are being applied to our leadership in the multinational battle group in Latvia. I was wondering if perhaps you'd like to make some comments on what we are learning and how we are applying those lessons in Latvia.
Noon
Gen Jonathan Vance
We're proud of the mission, too. I think we responded very quickly and we put the right troops on the ground to do the right thing at the right time. I think we continue to evolve that mission, ensuring that we, as best as we can, meet the training needs of the Ukrainian forces. I'm proud of them too, sir, and thank you for mentioning that.
I don't think it's a premise, but one thing you said I just can't let stand because it's of material importance. They are a NATO partner and not a NATO ally. It might not mean a lot to some people, but I have to tell you it means a great deal when you're dealing with the specifics of the use of military force.
That said, they have acquitted themselves very well and they are geographically positioned in such a way that I understand completely what you mean by that, that they are indeed on the eastern flank of the alliance, and that's, I think, one of the reasons Canada is so supportive of them.
Ukraine and their forces need to continue to evolve, and I think we have learned from them. One of the great things that happens when you have the privilege of working with other forces in a train, advise and assist role is that it's not all one way. You learn about their culture, about what worries them, and you learn a bit about what they are dealing with. We have indeed learned lots from them.
Thank you.
Noon
Liberal
Noon
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I was listening in on all of these comments. One thing I know in the work that I've done in the NATO PA is that there are a lot of discussions around extremists, ideologies, the challenges that they are bringing to the different countries, and how we're working collaboratively to address those issues. I think that's definitely one direction all militaries are having to look at.
I also look at the changing climate and the impact that's having on our forces here at home as well. I know that recruitment and drawing people into the Canadian Armed Forces continues to be something that we're working on. We want to see diversity expanding. In this environment of the international impacts, but also the local community and country impacts, I'm just curious if you could talk a bit about recruitment, looking at diversity, and how we, as the Canadian Armed Forces, are able to draw people in. What do we need to change within the systems we have in place that will allow us to be more inclusive and more attractive?
Noon
Gen Jonathan Vance
I thought this was a five-minute round and not a 45-minute round.
