National Defence Committee on Feb. 21st, 2019

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

It's more than just the studies at this point. You're asking about the implementation, and you're absolutely right. Part of it we referred to earlier on when we talked about more use of social media or virtual platforms, if you will. We find we're getting great success from that. The advantage of actually using social media is the fact that you can get analytics from it as well. So just as when they're going to look at running shoes or whatnot, folks can see what is being examined on the Internet. It's just a reality of life, and it's an important aspect for us to make sure that when we're sending out things, we can read how popular they are.

That's how I was able to give my answer earlier on about the aspects of women as recruiters and women being featured. We have a great little feature going on right now in which we have a cadet at Collège militaire royal de Saint-Jean, and she is being featured as a guest speaker for the webcast. That is widely popular with female audiences in the province of Quebec, francophone speakers and everything else.

We think it's important for us to be able to do that, because that's how we're going to expose what is there for people to potentially join. It's everything from looking at how you use social media, how you do data analytics, how you make sure you have websites that are up to speed and that are popular, if you will. It can't be a stultified, difficult thing to navigate. We've given a mandate that the forces must be able to recruit in six clicks. That's how they start their process, as opposed to the 27 that it used to be.

Those types of hands-on, easier and more attractive campaigns are important to us. It's the same thing when we're actually putting out campaigns in which we need to feature more women. We don't have a problem with getting enough people to come to be infantry soldiers, but we do have a problem with getting enough women to come and join the Canadian Armed Forces, so we're concentrating our actual recruiting. If you look at our ads, we're always featuring young women and oftentimes, young women from visible minority communities or indigenous folks, to say, “Come and join this team and see yourself reflected here. See who we have.” Luckily, we have some great ambassadors in the Canadian Armed Forces who are there and able to speak to these folks and say, “Come on in. It's a good place to be.”

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I could say cynically that's advertising and marketing, and that goes back to retention. Where are these people years down the road? Is there enough of a culture change within or a culture embracing within? You said earlier that we're still working on some of the metrics, some of the ways we can evaluate and measure our progress. Is there external expertise that you're open to in order to expedite that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'm going to have to hold it there.

I now give the floor to MP Robillard.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

During the study of diversity within the Canadian Armed Forces, witnesses have told the committee that exit interviews should be conducted when personnel leave the Canadian Armed Forces.

Are the Canadian Armed Forces considering exit interviews? If so, why?

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

Yes, we're considering them. In December 2018, the Canadian Armed Forces transition group was created under the leadership of General Misener.

The group is currently assessing how to make this transition in the Canadian Armed Forces. Some exit interviews have already been conducted. This is done for some trades in high demand, such as pilots or doctors. We want to conduct interviews with all the people who leave the Canadian Armed Forces.

Regarding the transition, a test will be conducted at Borden, in Ontario. Everyone who leaves the Canadian Forces will take part in exit interviews. We'll start using this information to guide the development of our future policies. The test in Borden will take place this year. Over the next four years, we'll be implementing the transition process for all Canadian Forces members across the country.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you.

I want to go back to operation honour. We're in the fourth year of this operation, which has already undergone some changes.

Can you tell us about the impact of this operation to date on the culture in the Canadian Armed Forces?

[Cmdre Rebecca Patterson]

Thank you for the question.

Again, it comes back to measuring the culture. What we can say is that through the surveys we've done, such as the “Your Say” surveys, the first step in changing culture is addressing behaviours and the climate that they are in. We're about to have the release of our second Statistics Canada survey at the end of May of this year, which will be our second data point to actually give us an idea of how we're doing, beyond just counting the number of behaviours and just output data in order to see how we're faring.

The last “Your Say” survey that we were referring to showed that 87% of the people had confidence that their chain of command would support them if they came forward with a complaint about sexual misconduct. Now, while that isn't culture writ large, it's starting to tell you that the first step in trying to move forward is to make people feel more confident with our system.

I'm hoping that by the end of May we'll be able to have more information for you and give you a really good idea about how we're doing with elements that are related to culture.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

You have about a minute and 50 seconds.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Okay.

One objective of the diversity strategy's action plan is to increase awareness of mental health issues in order to eliminate the associated stigma. How is awareness being raised and what are the results?

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

I'll start by answering, but I invite my colleagues to join the discussion.

Every year and even every day, the Canadian Armed Forces make sure that we talk about the mental health and well-being of individuals. In the fall of 2017, we implemented a suicide prevention strategy with the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Each year, we run a campaign with Bell Let's Talk so people know that we don't want to hide people with mental health problems and that we encourage them to seek help. People in senior positions in the Canadian Armed Forces are very open to talking about the difficulties they have had, and serve as examples.

I will add one last thing, because I think it's important. People don't realize that members of the Canadian Armed Forces are no different from them. Many military personnel have had mental health problems. They were treated, returned to work and deployed on operations. They have had tremendous success in their careers and personal lives.

In our environment, we must continue every day to encourage people to seek help and support them. We must also encourage those who support them, whether their peers, bosses or subordinates. In many cases, it is by encouraging and supporting them that these people will seek help.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

At the Halifax International Security Forum this year, there was a group of women leaders from the militaries of Australia, New Zealand, America, Britain, Germany, Sweden, Canada. I believe they called themselves the Peace With Women Fellowship. I think that's the program. I got to participate in the round table that they had talking about best practices and how we encourage particularly the retention of women and make sure they can continue to balance off family life and work life, and still advance through their careers and not miss out on promotion opportunities.

Commodore Patterson, have you had a chance to look at some of those discussions, those ideas, that are starting to percolate through, and at how we can take those best practices and use them here in Canada?

[Cmdre Rebecca Patterson]

I actually have just received a sort of retroaction on that conference, which I have not read yet. Once I do, I certainly will be having a look at them to see how they fit. I apologize for not being able to add more.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I think that's something where the opportunity is there for us to take those best practices and employ them.

I see we have army and we have navy here. I know that whenever I visit one of our ships, whether it's the HMCS Winnipeg or the Ville de Québec, I see a lot more diversity on board a ship than I see walking around CFB Shilo or at Gagetown.

We don't have any air force here, and we hear that we have a huge retention problem of pilots and air crew with our fighter fleet. Are there any particular recruitment tools you're using right now to increase the number of pilots and maintainers we have for our fighter fleet? Also, how are we actually going about improving diversity within that segment of the air force?

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

Within the fighter community of the air force, their diversity?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Yes, and the ground crews as well, right?

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

Yes. We haven't broken down, if you will, the diversity aspect between that specific segment. However, when we're trying to increase the diversity of the Canadian Armed Forces, we're looking to do so clear across the entire Canadian Armed Forces.

I do have statistics that can break it down to you by army, navy, air force, by officers and non-commissioned members, for visible minorities, for aboriginal—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

If you would table those, that would be great.

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

I'm happy to table those, because we have the breakdown of what it is.

Of course, the whole idea of how we're going to increase it is to go forward as we have discussed here, to put in place the goals and to have the process by which we specifically go and do targeted recruiting, and to reach out to influencers to engage folks who can influence young men and women to join the Canadian Armed Forces—and not so young in many cases. All of those aspects are important for us.

It goes beyond that, too. It goes beyond to make sure, for example, we have the right equipment for women. There's been an observation raised that a lot of times we don't have properly fitting clothing and whatnot, so we're doing work through our defence research establishment and with our materiel group to make sure we can do the internal market studies that are going to make sure the equipment fits properly.

That's all part of making it more attractive, if you will, for diversity and for recruitment.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

We've heard at this committee before that one of the reasons we're having such a problem with retention is that the kit they're flying around in is old and obsolete, so I'd like to give notice of the following motion:

That the Office of the Auditor General appear before the committee to explain the rationale behind the cancellation of the scheduled Spring 2018 Report “Requirements for Canada's Fighter Jets.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

So advised.

MP Martel.

[Richard Martel]

I'm concerned about recruitment and my intervention won't be very long.

At what age do you start meeting young people to recruit them? I remember that when I was in high school, people often came to talk to us.

Also, do you have a marketing plan for television? It seems that we see fewer commercials on television today than in the past. Is it because it's outdated or does it no longer work? I can still remember the “If you are interested in life” ad campaign, which aired when I was younger, and where life in the Canadian Armed Forces seemed pleasant and motivating. You could see the team spirit.

I have the impression that the current visibility of the Canadian Armed Forces is lower and that's why I'm asking you these questions.

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

Marketing is very important, but TV isn't as popular as it once was. Social media have become very important. We've noted that we get results when we use social media. The young and not so young are interested in what we post. In our social media campaigns, we can see people's interest through the number of “likes” we get. It's important for us. That's why you are seeing less advertising on television.

[Richard Martel]

Do you post video clips?

[LGen Charles Lamarre]

Yes, all kinds of things are there. I encourage people to visit our new recruitment website. You'll see what young people are seeing right now. It's interesting for us. That's the first thing—