National Defence Committee on Feb. 28th, 2019

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you.

[Jody Thomas]

I think that's important.

Also, I think there was a mistake made in the report. Mr. Finn did not say that the front was completed. He said that the beginning blocks were being cut and constructed. There was a clarification, I believe, made to the reporter who cited him as having said that the front end of the ship was ready. I just want to be very clear about actually who said what.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

All right. Thank you very much for that clarification.

Would the deputy minister table with the clerk by the end of day tomorrow all cost estimates that your department has received or has prepared in relation to the Canadian surface combatants' costs increasing to $77 billion as a result of the need for additional berths, increasing the speed, and in relation to radars, specifically Lockheed's radar compared with the Australian radar on the T26?

[Jody Thomas]

Thank you again for that question. I'll ask Mr. Finn to get into the detail.

The requirement for the Canadian surface combatant sets standards for speed, berths, etc., so there's no cost increase to the bid because of speed or berth. There has been no documentation prepared and nothing has come across my desk that says there's a cost increase to $77 billion.

Mr. Finn.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Okay.

[Patrick Finn]

Thank you.

To build on that very quickly, we have just entered the definition, doing the requirements reconciliation and preliminary design. We are operating within the budget envelope that has been established, and we view ourselves as there. Over 30 of the type 26 frigates will be built in three countries, so there will be a huge number of economies of scale and a fair amount of commonality around the hull propulsion and electrical work. We continue to operate within the budget established, which was also independently verified by the Parliamentary Budget Officer.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

We have a company that's been contracted to build five AOPS, under a ceiling price. Can you tell us what the ceiling price is and table with the clerk by the end of the day tomorrow the exact ceiling price for the AOPS and all information related to any request for AOPS six, seven and eight?

If you only have it for six, then I'll take six.

[Patrick Finn]

In the fall of last year, the contract was amended for six Arctic offshore patrol ships. The contract value is $3.4 billion. That includes more than the ships. It includes all of the training, spare parts and the things we do in all of our major contracts. That is the negotiated amount. Contract amounts of that nature are made public. In this case, PSPC would be the contracting authority who makes that information public.

It's six ships. That's what we're working on. As our minister said, that is our requirement, and that is the contract value.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

I was told—

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'm going to have to leave it there. Your time is up.

I will give the floor to MP Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I noticed, and the minister mentioned it today, the transfer of $18.4 million to the NATO security investment programme. Deputy Minister, can you comment a bit on that program, what Canada is providing and how it compares with what other NATO countries are contributing?

[Jody Thomas]

We are very proud to contribute to NATO, as you're well aware. It is money we contribute to conduct operations within the NATO infrastructure and the NATO coalition. The NATO security investment programme helps finance capital costs for NATO, such as communication information systems and installations at various facilities, such as radar and military headquarters, airfields, and fuel and navigational aids to support NATO military structure, such as for deployed operations.

.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

How does that compare with what other countries are contributing?

[Jody Thomas]

I can get you that information. I'm not sure if my CFO knows it.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Even anecdotally—

[Claude Rochette, Assistant Deputy Minister (Finance) and Chief Financial Officer, Department of National Defence]

We are the number 6 contributor of the 29 nations. We contribute between 6.1% and 6.4%. I don't have the exact percentage, but it is around that percentage.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Deputy Minister, do you have a sense of how that is received within NATO?

[Jody Thomas]

It is received very positively. I was just at the NATO defence minister's meeting with Minister Sajjan. What is extraordinary when you're at NATO as a Canadian is the appreciation for our contribution and efforts to acquire new equipment and our leadership in so many missions. For such a small country, in our leadership within NATO, we punch above our weigh significantly, to the point where we took on the NATO mission in Iraq because we were requested to.

Our soldiers, sailors and air persons are second to none, so the contributions we make—and I'll ask General Wynnyk to elaborate further—are commented on. The Canadian perspective is appreciated and sought out at NATO.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

General, do you want to comment on that?

[LGen Paul Wynnyk]

I will take every opportunity I can to brag about the great men and women who serve Canada in uniform.

Certainly—I'll use a number of examples—our ships providing deterrence in the Mediterranean are getting rave reviews. The battle group we have in Latvia is an example of interoperability. We're up to 10 nations now. Our allies are effusive in their praise. I could go on, but just to echo what the deputy minister said—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I'm sorry, did you say we're up to 10 nations who have come under that brigade?

[LGen Paul Wynnyk]

Yes. It's not a brigade. It's a battle group—essentially a battalion.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

In the battle group.

[LGen Paul Wynnyk]

—essentially a battalion. However, it is a very good question. That's very significant. I can't think of a time, when I look back in military history, when 10 NATO countries have been integrated in one unit. It's cutting edge in terms of interoperability.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I find it very interesting that you make that comment. I've mentioned this at the committee before. When we were in Latvia a couple of years ago, we had an opportunity to chat with some of the members there. We're not supposed to name names other than to provide context, but we were told specifically—which I found very interesting, and it resonated—that other nations were choosing to be part of that battalion because Canada was leading it. I think what is not captured quite often when we have this discussion of spending, as it relates to Canada's spending, is that it's impossible to capture the value that Canadian Forces being present brings to a mission.

You can contribute 4% or 5% of your GDP to defence and never show up, and it's really not going to count for much, but in Canada we have this ability, and when we're present somewhere in another part of the world, other nations pay attention to that. As we're seeing through 10 other nations wanting to be part of that battalion, people are lining up and going there, and we were told it's because Canada is leading it.

Thank you for that.