National Defence Committee on Sept. 29th, 2016

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Just to follow up on what I was speaking about earlier, when you look at the strategic response team that you lead and whether you have the tools it requires, there is an increase in reporting. A lot of it is historical, a lot of people are feeling safer and are coming forward now, and a lot of people are testing the waters. Do you have enough resources? Are there more tools that you need in your tool box to do your job, such as more regulation or legislation, that we as parliamentarians could assist with? Also, if there has been an increase in the number of investigations that the JAG and the military police have to commit to and then also prosecute, do they have the tools?

[RAdm Jennifer Bennett]

The answer is yes, we have sufficient resources, and when we need resources there hasn't been a question about having access to those because of the high priority of this. We do have, again, the opportunity to call upon civilian expertise. The military police are augmenting their expertise by doing their training with allies, with civilian police forces, with agencies that have that training and the expertise. The addition of the 18 investigators has increased the complement within the Canadian Forces national investigation service, so we are augmenting. The director of military prosecutions is doing a great deal more training than they have traditionally done specific to this, and where they don't have the resources internally they are drawing upon external communities.

In terms of victim advocacy and victims having a voice, I do think there is an opportunity for us, and as well for you as the government, from the perspective of how we assist in that regard.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

In the survey that you had Statistics Canada do, 40,000 members were surveyed, both primary reserve and regular force. I'm hoping you had large enough samples from the air force, navy, and army. So that we have an idea of what the survey entailed, what types of questions were asked?

[LGen Christine Whitecross]

It was a space and time survey. They wanted to know members' awareness of Operation Honour after August 2015 when General Vance made it an order, their understanding of it, what it meant, and whether they had been exposed to any type of sexual misconduct during that period, as well as anything before that. It was baseline information set from the years prior to August 2015, and then something in order to identify whether there was any other behaviour after August 2015.

It did identify army, air force, navy, different rank levels, and geographic space across the country. Some of the questions were very specific and some were a little bit more vague. With the analysis that is being done between now and the end of November when it's made public, we'll have a better idea of what baseline they've identified.

[RAdm Jennifer Bennett]

In addition, some of the questions were very specific about types of behaviour and then the follow-up on that. Did you report this? Did you feel comfortable reporting? If you didn't, why or why not? Were you satisfied with the results? It was a wide range of questions. We needed that information, first to determine a baseline of prevalence of incidents as well as the types of incidents, and that information will be used to help us to influence training, education, awareness, and our action plan. Are we addressing the right level? Is it reporting that's an issue? Is it retaliation? What are the specific issues?

Since we had such a high response rate and a very representative sample across both the regular force and the primary reserve, we expect those results will be very useful to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Mr. Fisher.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and l'll try to be quick.

I'm interested in the mandate of Operation Honour. My understanding was it was basically the 10 recommendations of Madame Deschamps. Is it broader than that? In your comments you spoke about it being not limited to these. Could you maybe quickly outline some of the other things in Operation Honour outside of those 10 recommendations?

[LGen Christine Whitecross]

Mr. Chair, it includes Madam Deschamps' 10 recommendations, but it goes further than that. In fact, as we're developing more of the institutional.... Whether it's policies, training, education, surveys, or performance measurements and the like, we are adjusting Operation Honour in new areas. We call them fragos, or fragmentation orders, that add to what we're doing. A lot of that has to do as well with reporting. We're having all of the army, air force, navy, and the special ops and myself as a force—

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

What you're hearing.

[LGen Christine Whitecross]

—tell people what it is. We need to take that information, in addition to what the response centre finds, and then make the work that we're doing even better, so it really is very much all-encompassing.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

That's very helpful. Thank you.

One short snapper.

Rear Admiral, I think it was you who mentioned that the fitness levels now, the standards, are the same between men and women. Are you getting any complaints that this isn't being practised, or are you getting any complaints that it is being practised?

[LGen Christine Whitecross]

It's hard, I'll give you that.

That's my area, one of my responsibilities. The answer is, no. It's being done because that's the decision that we've made as a senior leadership, and I think it speaks in spades about our ability to treat people the same. And it's not only men and women, it's regardless of your age. My birthday was yesterday and I'm now on the other side of 50 and I'm 5' 2” on a really good day, and it's a tough test. But I agree that this is the way we need to go.

[RAdm Jennifer Bennett]

When we rolled it out, we did have concerns, so I used that opportunity in my role as the champion for women to introduce women to the test, to let them have a chance to understand it. We are well prepared for the test as well. There are training programs that are designed for people of all shapes and sizes, ages and genders. As we rolled this out, I think fear was the greatest challenge, people thinking, can I do this?

One of the advantages of a common standard is that everyone understands, so that when you are deployed on operations you don't separate people out by thinking you can only lift this amount and you can only do these things. You understand that everyone has met the same standard.

[LGen Christine Whitecross]

We'd be happy to give you an opportunity to try the test.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I often use the example—this is a bit of an aside now—I tell young male hockey players to play like female hockey players. It's very difficult to hold yourself up to the standards of, say, the Canadian female Olympic team and the things they've been able to accomplish, or the Canadian soccer team.

It's interesting. I appreciate that comment, thank you.

[LGen Christine Whitecross]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I think that's pretty much it for the questions.

I want to thank you both for coming. You are charged with a difficult but very necessary task, and it's evident by your testimony here today that the CDS chose the right people for the job. Thank you very much.

I'll suspend for about five or six minutes so we can say our goodbyes.

[Proceedings continue in camera]