National Defence Committee on Nov. 17th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Ms. Zahid.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Mr. Garrison, would you like the last question?

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Yes, I would. Thank you very much.

I'd like to follow up on the joint supply ships. To get back to my floor and ceiling analogy, we have two coasts and we're only getting two supply ships. Obviously ships spend time in refit and maintenance, so really, we're still damaging our blue-water capability by having only two supply ships. Would you agree with me on that?

[RAdm Patrick Finn]

Again, I think it's a better question for Admiral Lloyd. He and I have talked about this. We had to prematurely, from the perspective of what we wanted to do, retire the two Preserver-class ships. We were at two, so we replaced capability by capability. I think time will tell. I think the admiral talked about how from a policy perspective we're still in the world of two with an option for a third. The question will really be, I think, for the navy and the department, what it is they want to invest in next.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Will the ship that's being refit to fill the gap be available to us after we have the two ships in place? There seem to be some timelines that cut off before that.

[Lisa Campbell]

Yes, because of an unforeseen need that arose, Canada did enter into a service contract, a lease, which is for refitting a ship at Chantier Davie so that it can provide these services and get us through to full operation of the two joint supply ships that, as Mr. Finn said, are both expected in 2021.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Perhaps I could slip in one more question here about apprenticeship. I'll be a little picky. Victoria shipyards is actually in Esquimalt, in my riding. We've talked a lot with the manager of the yards, who's very committed to getting non-traditional apprentices. I wonder if any of that is built into the contracting that's being done, such as hiring first nations apprentices, more women apprentices, more visible minorities in the apprenticeship programs. Is that one of the objectives in the contract?

[RAdm Patrick Finn]

In all of these contracts, under the aegis of the defence procurement strategy that was announced a few years ago, we now have weighted and rated value propositions. As part of those value propositions, there will be aboriginal offsets and other things built in. Now, the bidders have to propose them, but generally they do, and they are there, but I would also say for all the shipyards across Canada, it's almost self-preservation, in the context of they need apprentices everywhere. I volunteered for a while with an organization that was looking at the traditional kinds of trades. It's self-preservation to actually bring in, I will say, more employment equity, more gender balance, more first nations. Without that, there will be great difficulty creating the workforce to carry this off. Again, both of the shipyards, Davie, as well, have worked very hard to bring in non-traditional people, and it's very exciting to go to either yard and see the people they've brought in to do the work.

[Lisa Campbell]

If I may add, they actually have formal programs to do this. I mentioned that Seaspan's relationship with an aboriginal trade school has been hugely successful, and has stimulated their workforce. Irving shipyard has a women shipbuilders first program, which reaches out to female single parents, offers to train them over a period of time, with the end result that they have a valuable skill set. It's brilliant on their part because often the women have children in school and are invested in staying around for a while as well. As Mr. Finn said, it's a long-term investment.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

It's something that seems to be working very well. I have the privilege of being in the shipyard a lot locally. When I first got elected in 2011, I asked the manager, and he said, “Yes, we have aboriginal people. I know both of them.” We've moved a long way from that attitude, and I think it is also due to the way you're doing the contracting, so congratulations.

[Lisa Campbell]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you both for coming today, and thank you for your patience. I'm sure that we'll see you again.

Could I get a motion to adjourn, please.

The meeting is adjourned.