National Defence Committee on April 4th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

We are going to get started here. I appreciate your patience and apologize for our tardiness. We had votes that lasted a long time. We have a quorum, and we have all parties present, so I am happy to proceed.

Thank you for coming today to talk to us about your appointment as senior associate deputy minister of national defence. Congratulations. I understand that you have some comments. Following your comments, members of the committee would like to ask you some questions.

You have the floor.

[Jody Thomas, Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I very much appreciate the opportunity to be here and to introduce myself to all of you as the new senior associate deputy minister of national defence.

This is day 17. Over the past three weeks, I've had the feeling of being on new but familiar ground. I am the daughter of an admiral. My father retired as vice-chief of the defence staff. My husband served in the regular and the reserve force, and is a medically released commander in the navy. My brother-in-law is a serving major-general.

I am also a commissioned officer. I joined the naval reserve as a high school student, through what was then known as the summer youth employment program.

I was in one of the first cohorts of women in the naval reserve to be allowed to have a so-called hard sea trade, and I chose to be a diesel mechanic. I was not a fantastic diesel mechanic.

Then, upon entering university, I applied to, and was accepted into, a three-year officer training program. When I graduated, I trained officer cadets to be maritime surface and subsurface officers, the officers who command, coordinate, and control military maritime operations and who help inform the design, procurement, and evaluation of ships, submarines, and naval systems.

I learned a lot from that experience. Indeed, I attribute much of my resilience to my time in the navy.

My ability to see where we are, where we need to be, and how to get there safely is unequivocally a gift from my time in the navy. Both have served me incredibly well in the various management leadership roles I've held in the public sector.

My first foray into the public sector was as chief of business planning and administration for the Atlantic region of what was then Public Works and Government Services Canada. I then moved to the other side of the country, where my husband was posted, and became the business manager of the Esquimalt graving dock on the west coast. It was a busy place. As the only open-access, multi-user facility on the west coast of the Americas, and the largest deep-sea shipbuilding and repair facility on Canada's Pacific coast, we welcomed big ships from around the world, from cruise ships and general cargo vessels to B.C. ferries and Royal Canadian Navy warships.

Turning my attention away from the water for a few years, I joined Passport Canada in 1995. There, I held several positions, including manager of the Victoria passport office, director of security operations, and director general of security. Most notably, however, I took on the role of chief operating officer at the height of the 2007 passport crisis.

That year, new international travel policies left Canadians who wanted to fly to the United States scrambling to get passports. The department was woefully unprepared for the surge in demand. In January alone, we received 23,000 more applications a day than we did the month before. By May, we had a backlog of almost 200,000 applications. My job was to turn it all around.

In the months that followed, I undertook an immense restructuring of the services in each province and territory. We put in place new processes. We built a new centre for printing passports, and we hired new personnel. Two years later, the then-Auditor General of Canada, Sheila Fraser, tabled a status report. In it, she said she was “pleased at the extensive action it [Passport Canada] has taken to fix the problems”. I was pleased too, and it remains one of the highlights of my career.

Another highlight was my tenure as the commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard.

I worked every single day with the armed forces in that job, and I am also honoured to have been the first woman to lead the Canadian Coast Guard.

Obviously, there are many differences between the two institutions, yet they share a unique operational component. As the head of the government's civilian fleet, I oversaw an organization that every single day saves 15 lives, responds to 27 search and rescue cases, manages the movements of 1,233 vessels, carries out 11 fisheries patrols, supports 8 scientific surveys and 3 hydrographic missions, surveys 3.5 kilometres of channel bottom, and contributes to the work of numerous other government departments.

I was, and continue to be, incredibly proud of the work of the Canadian Coast Guard's 5,000 employees.

On a personal level, I am also proud that during my two years at the helm I was able to document the case for increased funding for the Coast Guard. I was able to make the organization more relevant to communities across the country. My team and I were able to show Canadians just how extraordinary this organization is, even as we streamlined our operations, renewed our fleet, and explored how we could better deliver our range of essential and critical services.

Another significant challenge I faced at the Coast Guard was managing the psychological impact of operations. A particularly difficult time occurred while I was deputy commissioner of operations. As many of you may remember, a Coast Guard helicopter crashed in the Arctic four years ago, killing all three people on board.

The incident affected everyone in the agency, and it really underscored for me the importance of ensuring both the mental and the physical well-being of our employees, many of whom face difficult situations on the job and see the worst possible scenarios at work, and some of whom deal with difficult situations at home, as well.

It's why I am now the champion of mental health at the Department of National Defence. I know the pain of people who have lost colleagues on an operation. I've seen the devastation of suicide on family and loved ones, and I can attest to how initiatives like a local one in this city, Do it For Daron, can really make a difference in people's lives.

My primary responsibility, however, is to help ensure that the Department of National Defence can tackle the four big challenges it faces. First, is its huge implementation agenda; second, is the quick and complete application of the new defence policy when it's launched; third, is the exacting, judicious, and strategic use of Canadian tax dollars; and finally, we need to further close the seam between the Canadian Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs Canada.

I feel well-positioned to help do that. I understand the structure of the department and the Canadian Armed Forces. I have a lot of experience balancing service delivery and security, and I have great internal advisers who can give, and have given, me a solid footing on the issues.

I look forward to taking those issues on, and building a department that serves soldiers, sailors, air personnel, military families, and Canadians across the country.

Thank you for your time, and I'd be pleased to answer any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you for your comments, and for your years of public service in a multitude of different capacities.

I'm going to give the first question to Mark Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you for coming to see us today.

In your remarks you said, “My ability to see where we are, where we need to be, and how to get there safely is unequivocally a gift from my time in the navy.” So where are we, and where do we need to go?

[Jody Thomas]

Certainly, that was an approach I used when I was in the Coast Guard. Right now, we are focused on delivering the services that are on your plate and your agenda for the upcoming year. Where we need to be is how we, in the Coast Guard, implemented a number of major initiatives, the most recent one being the oceans protection plan. Within the defence environment, it's going to be defence renewal, and the defence policy review when it is launched. What we're focusing on within the Department of Defence right now is how we ensure that the day-to-day tasks get done, as we move major initiatives forward.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

You also mentioned how to get there safely. Can you talk about that, in particular any experiences you may have had that would help to qualify the fact that you can do that?

[Jody Thomas]

Safely has a number of facets to it. When I was in the military, it was, of course, about keeping the ship and crew safe. In an organization like the Coast Guard, it was ensuring, as we took on different and new tasks, that the training, infrastructure, and vessels were there for people, and that we could move forward with new initiatives without impacting either our staff or, again, what we were delivering day-to-day. The same is exactly true within the Department of Defence.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

We've had a lot of discussions in particular about the role of our Coast Guard versus similar roles that coast guards of other countries are taking on, like the United States, for example. One of the things that appears to be quite different between our Coast Guard and those of other countries is the fact that ours is not armed. What do you think of that?

[Jody Thomas]

It's a very interesting question, and thank you for it. It's one we are asked a lot in the Coast Guard. I'm not there any longer, but it's certainly something I was frequently asked when I was commissioner. The interesting thing about coast guards is that there are as many different models of coast guards as there are coast guards. The navy tends to be a navy is a navy, and they are all very similar in their function, structure, and mandate.

The coast guards range. The U.S. coast guard is one extreme. It is very much like a navy. In fact, many people consider it to be the fifth largest navy in the world. The Canadian Coast Guard bridges a gap between it and, for example, Her Majesty's coast guard in the United Kingdom, where they don't have vessels. They manage ship movement, they coordinate search and rescue, but they don't actually respond. We're in the middle between those two.

We do have two vessels that are armed. The Cygnus and Cowley are armed for the purposes of fisheries patrols. Our large ships, the icebreakers, are fitted for weapons but not with weapons.

There is opportunity to look at the role and function of the Coast Guard. There is more of a need for, perhaps, a constabulary authority than for a military authority for the Coast Guard. That's a bigger gap in terms of what's happening on the water in Canada's 200 mile limit.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Your experience with the Coast Guard definitely brings an interesting element, especially as it relates to that particular discussion we've been dancing around a lot because it comes up inadvertently in other conversations.

I appreciate that answer, but I'm trying to determine whether you think the model we have is the right model in terms of our defence, when we talk about defending Canada—

[Jody Thomas]

I think our model—

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Sorry. I'm asking specifically about the fact that our ships might be designed or be ready to be equipped with weapons, but they're not.

[Jody Thomas]

I think that the actual fitting of weapons on a ship is the smallest part of the problem and the smallest part of the challenge, if you were to change the function of the Coast Guard. It is a civilian agency. It doesn't have a culture across the organization of military training, rules of engagement, and those kinds of things that are critical to a military organization, so that you know what to do when you are confronted with a threat.

I think the Coast Guard plays a critical role on the water. It partners with the armed forces, the RCMP, and CBSA on a number of fronts in terms of the safety, security, and sovereignty of Canada.

Certainly, the Coast Guard has a large presence in the Arctic. There are six icebreakers in the Arctic every year doing a number of things, from search and rescue, to environmental response, and icebreaking for resupply. It is also a huge sovereignty presence. Those red and white ships mean something up there.

In terms of what is required today, I think that the Coast Guard is the right model. I don't think models are static though, and I think you always have to be looking at what the country needs and where it's best placed to deliver that service from. I think there's a time where you may want a more active role from the Coast Guard, but for today, I think the model works.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

If I have any time left, I'll share it with Ms. Alleslev.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

You have a minute and 20 seconds for a question and a response.

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you again for everything you've done. It's exciting to have you in this new position.

To open, I have an interesting question. I'd like to understand what you believe the roles of parliamentarians are, and the defence committee in particular, in their relationship with the Department of National Defence and the ministry.

[Jody Thomas]

I think the roles of parliamentarians are quite clear in a democracy. Your roles are to represent constituents' issues in the House of Commons and ensure that democracy remains safe in this country.

In terms of the committee, I have a lot of experience with the fisheries committee having been with the Coast Guard. Your roles are to challenge decisions that are made, to ask questions, and ensure that you, and therefore Canadians, understand what's going on in the department. You can then assess how we're operating, whether we're efficient and effective in the use of public funds, whether we're good stewards of public funds, and whether we're exercising our responsibilities as implementers of government policy appropriately. I think the roles are broad and critical.

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

In terms of your candidacy—

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

That's your time.

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'm going to give the floor over to Mr. Paul-Hus.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon.

In your opening statement, you mentioned your brother-in-law, a serving major-general.

Who is your brother-in-law?

[Jody Thomas]

He is in Colorado Springs. He is a major-general.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Who?

[Jody Thomas]

Chris Coates....