National Defence Committee on Oct. 24th, 2017

[Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze]

You are right that people who live in the occupied territories are unfortunately subject to continuous information attacks by the Russian so-called media. I am glad we are not the only ones seeing the propagandist nature of the Russian media. It is functioning not only in the Russian Federation and the occupied Donbass region but also in some of the Russian media, like Russia Today and Sputnik. Finally, the world is getting a more sober understanding of the narrative we are dealing with.

I'm sure it would take time for people to be healed in those territories. Once they get exposure to different types of information, they will have to have a chance to absorb it, to analyze it, to get over their Stockholm Syndrome, and to feel dignified and sure that they do not have to be afraid of anything else. However, they will need some time, after the weapons are withdrawn, after the troops and mercenaries are withdrawn, to return to their usual lives and start thinking again.

Another part of this success is the CAF-controlled territory. In 2008, during the NATO summit in Bucharest, Putin said that Ukraine is a failed state. This is exactly what Russia is targeting. It wants to ensure that we do not succeed. They are not happy with any of our successes.

The more successful we are in economic reforms, in social reforms, and in growing democracy throughout the territory of Ukraine, the easier it will be for the people in Donbass to come back to normal. Once they see that behind the division line, life is flourishing and going ahead, this will be better than any political or campaign ad in the territory of Donbass. Working together and ensuring that we succeed is the best way of reintegrating.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Yesterday we heard about thousands of kilometres of porous border between Russia and Ukraine. What is the government doing to secure that border? We have arms traffic and illegal trade going on there. What can you do? How can you take steps to solve that issue?

[Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze]

As you are clearly pointing out, as I said earlier, we have found ourselves 23 years into independence with these loops in our development. Conscious decisions were made earlier to ensure that Ukraine could be penetrated by the Russian Federation and that it was dependent on the Russian Federation in terms of our economic well-being and our energy. Even now, more than 30% of our trade is tied to the Russian Federation.

All of this has to be changed, including border control. We have been training our border guards, and they have shown great successes in their activities, and we are also working closely with the EU to ensure that our borders are protected. Through the implementation of the visa liberalization action plan, which we had to fulfill to obtain visa-free travel with the EU, we have ensured that we can manage migration flows and that we are protecting our borders according to the rules and procedures acceptable to EU countries.

I think there was also probably a bit of not necessarily manipulation but non-objective information presented during your hearings, in which the Ukrainian-Russian border was called transparent. It's not transparent anymore.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you.

I think that pretty much brings us to the end of our discussion today.

I want to thank you very much for your time.

[Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

In the next few days, the committee will go into the report-writing stage, and we'll deliberate on substantive recommendations to the Government of Canada. We also appreciate—as we've heard from many people—that this is very much an information war. It was our pleasure to help you, through this process and our visit to Ukraine, to get your voice on the world stage and to help combat the misinformation that has been happening.

If we can do something more for you in the future, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Thank you very much.

[Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze]

Thank you very much. I appreciate this opportunity and I thank you for all the work done by the Parliament of Canada and by the governments of Canada to support Ukraine.

I hope that this will stay the same in the future and that we Ukrainians will be contributing as donors and partners to the security of the whole world, including Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.