National Defence Committee on Feb. 6th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Given the time we have left, there was the will for a couple of questions.

You can have a couple of minutes, Mr. Bezan, and the last question will go to Ms. Alleslev.

Mr. Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to ask a quick question.

There have been some criticisms that NATO was caught a little bit flat-footed four years ago when Russia walked into Crimea with its little green men. The war in Donbass started. We did an amazing job in standing up the enhanced forward positions in the Baltics and Poland at relatively breakneck speed, but there were a lot of precursors to Russia's invasion of Crimea in Donbass.

How did we miss the signs of Russia's new imperialistic vision when they had already gone into Georgia and Ossetia, and with the Transnistria question in Moldova and the so-called Russian peacekeepers who are situated there and the destabilizing impact they're having on the region, as well as the nuclear sabre-rattling that Putin was doing throughout his tenure as president? How did we not see this coming when all signs pointed to increased not just aggression, but actual invasion of Ukraine and the destabilizing actions along the Baltics and the Polish border?

[Kerry Buck]

I wasn't ambassador to NATO at the time.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I appreciate that. Since you've been there, what lessons have been learned?

[Kerry Buck]

I was political director at the time. I was there that Friday afternoon—their morning—when Russia marched into Crimea.

I know from NATO and I know from a Canadian security perspective that we had been tracking for quite a while the shift in Russian behaviour. In 2008 they started building up their military capabilities. That came after a number of years of dropping investments in their military capabilities. They started to build back up to a level that would allow self-defence, starting in 2008, but they also started to shift their doctrine. The situation with Georgia, at the same time, in 2008, happened in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. There were a lot of signs that Russia was perhaps not going to be the partner that the international community, or at least the west, had hoped Russia might be immediately following the fall of the Cold War.

Could we have predicted the march into Crimea? Maybe. It was obvious that it had been planned for a while. It was executed with remarkable precision.

I think the thing that's most important is how the international community reacted with force and with unity. We kept the sanctions. We put the sanctions in place very, very quickly. Russia was removed from the G8 very, very quickly. We kept those sanctions together. We've kept very hard messages from NATO. We built up on the eastern flank to show Russia that we're committed and that any messing with NATO brings down the entire alliance on Russia's head. That's had an impact on Russian behaviour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

Thank you.

The last questioner is Ms. Alleslev.

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much.

I think I heard you say, Ambassador, but I'd like to see if I can confirm it, that education and public diplomacy about NATO are not only a NATO responsibility, but also the responsibility of parliamentarians and the general public. Did I hear you correctly?

[Kerry Buck]

Yes. The NATO parliamentary association is an absolutely key actor in telling Canadians how important NATO is for Canada, so thank you. I would also give a shout-out to the NATO Association of Canada and model NATO meetings. The more the merrier. We're happy to support that.

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I asked because there is a need at this point to make sure we have that communication and education.

Toward that end, General Whitecross, you mentioned think tanks. I wondered if you could give us some Canadian think tanks—if not right now, then perhaps later—that we could also be working with to expand this “thought leadership” and then public diplomacy.

[LGen Christine Whitecross]

Absolutely we can get you that list.

[Leona Alleslev, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Outstanding.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Stephen Fuhr]

I'd like to thank you all for your time today. Obviously, one of the reasons the committee undertook this particular study was to highlight the importance of NATO generally and then Canada's relationship with NATO, and to better define our relationship not just in terms of spending but also capability and participation. We need to think about a whole bunch of things when we think about our relationship with NATO.

At the end of this, the intent is to provide some recommendations to the Government of Canada on how we can make it better. It sounds like things are going well, but of course we can always improve. This conversation will go a long way to that end.

Thank you very much for your time. We probably will end up seeing you again at some point.

Have a good day.

The meeting is adjourned.