Evidence of meeting #81 for National Defence in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was russia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Other countries got involved because Canada was involved.
Chair, Defence, Interior and Anti-corruption Commission, Saeima, Riga, Latvia, As an Individual
Yes, many of them. I know for sure that Russia was devastated when Spain and Italy decided to join this group in Latvia. They didn't expect it.
Liberal
Chair, Defence, Interior and Anti-corruption Commission, Saeima, Riga, Latvia, As an Individual
Very much value, because when you talk to the general public, they ask, “Why are you in Afghanistan? It's so far away.” Or they say, “Spain and Italy are in the south. Why should they come and help us?” But they come, and that's for you to judge. They come, and that's why people have more trust in NATO than before. Before, we said that in the case of military conflict or war, although article 5 says our friends will come and help, who is really going to help? Back then, you just hoped. Now they are there, and the numbers are growing.
The training grounds we are offering, the logistics, and everything else is why the Czechs and Slovaks are coming, for example, additionally.
It's a big mission. I don't know exactly how many are in Poland, Lithuania, and Estonia. In Estonia they have the Brits and the French, and in Lithuania the Germans and some other nation—the Danes?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr
I'm going to have to end that question there and I'm going to give the floor to Mr. Garrison. You can run a little longer if you'd like.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
One of the things we have seen recently in Europe is some manoeuvring of tactical nuclear weapons and movements. The United States moved tactical nuclear weapons from Turkey to Romania, which may have more to do with Turkish relations than it does anything else, but we also saw the movement of Russian nuclear-capable Iskander-M missiles into Kaliningrad.
The question I tried to sneak in at the end of my last round is really, what has been the Latvian response within NATO, in terms of trying to reduce the nuclear escalation or nuclear tensions?
Chair, Defence, Interior and Anti-corruption Commission, Saeima, Riga, Latvia, As an Individual
We are keeping calm, and this way there are no announcements from politicians; there is no rattling of arms. With the assistance of NATO countries and their security services, we follow the situation very closely. We know what's going on, we are informed, and I think it is the right approach.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
NATO used to have, though, more active efforts under way to look toward anti-nuclear proliferation and anti-nuclear tension-building. Has Latvia made any requests inside NATO to reactivate those kinds of measures?
Chair, Defence, Interior and Anti-corruption Commission, Saeima, Riga, Latvia, As an Individual
I don't think so. I'm not aware of any.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Do you see a useful role for NATO in trying to become re-involved in those kinds of things? Certainly, the danger of tactical nuclear weapons is the idea that they're somehow usable without a catastrophe for the entire world.
Chair, Defence, Interior and Anti-corruption Commission, Saeima, Riga, Latvia, As an Individual
A year ago, a BBC documentary looked hypothetically at the possible usage of these because of the conflict in Latvia. This was a documentary that was watched by many Latvians. Of course, it asked some questions, but I'm not a great specialist on non-proliferation issues. Hopefully, heads of NATO countries who will be meeting again this year—
Where is it going to happen?
His Excellency Karlis Eihenbaums Ambassador of the Republic of Latvia to Canada
It's in July.
Chair, Defence, Interior and Anti-corruption Commission, Saeima, Riga, Latvia, As an Individual
In July, but where?
Chair, Defence, Interior and Anti-corruption Commission, Saeima, Riga, Latvia, As an Individual
—will address these issues as well, but I really don't know. I share your concern, but I have no information concerning these issues.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Stephen Fuhr
That ends our formal round of questioning. Given the clock and our committee business at a quarter after and the need for a few minutes to suspend and say goodbye to our witnesses, I'll give two more five-minute questions.
I'll start with the government side, then I'll give the last question to Mr. Bezan or whoever on the Conservative side wants it.
I'll give the five-minute question to Mr. Spengemann. If you would like to share your time, you're welcome to do so.
Mr. Spengemann, the floor is yours.
Liberal
Sven Spengemann Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Mr. Chair, thanks very much.
I want us to return for a minute to the big-picture political question.
NATO is an alliance that's founded on the principles of democracy, individual liberty, and the rule of law. Anecdotally, within the international community there is an emerging sentiment that things are chaotic, unsettled, and that there are fewer and fewer countries that will stand up for the values of the rules-based international order.
To what extent do you think that's true in the perception of the Latvian people? Is it true in your own perception, and is there more that needs to be done to defend the core values of democracy and liberty?
Chair, Defence, Interior and Anti-corruption Commission, Saeima, Riga, Latvia, As an Individual
What made things worse, as you know, was the so-called Budapest agreement, when Americans, Brits, and Russia agreed that Ukraine should get rid of its nuclear weapons after the Soviet Union broke down. That agreement said something about the Ukraine being kept as one territory, so it didn't work. It's really bad for that clause, I believe, but I think it's worth fighting for.
The decisions the European Union took after Russia annexed Crimea are the right ones. Otherwise, it would be like history repeating itself all over again. It would be as it was before the Second World War. The leaders of the EU could not afford something like this; it would be devastating.
Going back to some of the questions about why you should become involved or why we should become involved, I would say from my heart that if something happens in the Arctic, in the territories that you are rightfully saying are yours, believe me, we'll be there. Our people are training right now. They jump into cold water through the ice and they are learning how to survive—not specifically for a future case like this, but that's what we do for training. We involve your troops as well in that kind of training, but I guess you do the same here in Canada as well.
But who would do that?
Liberal
Sven Spengemann Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
We jump into cold water most of the time.
Mr. Chair, I'll delegate the rest of my time to my colleagues.
Liberal
Yves Robillard Liberal Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
A March 2017 National Post article quoted Paul Rutherford, former commander of the Joint Forces Cyber Component, stating:
We definitely have to get it right. We have to go to Latvia with a strong defensive posture. We will educate our troops about vulnerabilities, because Russia is quite adept in the cyber and information warfare domains.
Almost a year after that statement, what do you think the current state of this war of disinformation is?
Chair, Defence, Interior and Anti-corruption Commission, Saeima, Riga, Latvia, As an Individual
I already tried to explain. There was the case of Lithuania, where they did as much as possible at that point, trying to put out fake news about the rape of a young girl. That news didn't fly. They did a lot of posts on Facebook and tweets on Twitter in Russian and English, which were targeted at NATO. In general, the content was more about how NATO is a bad thing and there is no need for NATO to be...and Russia is a nice country. But it didn't go anywhere. It didn't influence societies.
I think you have to take a look at it. They are not trying to target your troops there. They are trying to influence the local population and put them against the troops, but they haven't succeeded.
I told you yesterday, but probably I'll tell you once more. Your ice hockey team, on the way to the Olympic games, had the last friendly game, a training game, and it took place in Latvia. The Latvian national team is coached by a Canadian. I play soccer. I don't know his name—