National Defence Committee on Oct. 26th, 2020

[BGen Lise Bourgon]

I will begin.

I have good news. According to the latest numbers, women now make up 16.1% of the forces. COVID-19 has certainly impacted recruitment in all sectors, but we continue to work very hard to recruit women. In their inclusion and diversity strategy, the Canadian Forces recognize the importance of women and minority groups.

Our recruitment strategy is working. We have implemented many things over the past two years. You may have heard about the women in force program. That's a three-day or 10-day program that provides women with an introduction, as there are many unknowns when it comes to being part of the Canadian Forces. The program gives women an opportunity to become familiar with military life and talk to other women from the Canadian Forces to see whether the environment is right for them.

The results have been very positive. According to the latest information, 25% of women who participated in the program have joined the Canadian Forces. That is an excellent program, and we want to restart it as soon as possible, once the COVID-19 pandemic has calmed down a bit, if I may put it that way.

As for other initiatives, we are tackling them in order of priority. First, we are overhauling our recruitment system. Our recruitment website was restructured to reach the new generation—young people aged 20 to 30. Traffic on our website has increased by 12%, which is exceptional.

We prioritize female sectors. If we are serious about our efforts to recruit 25% of women, we have to look at the female sectors put forward to achieve our objectives. We have had a number of discussion groups to determine what elements attract Canadians to pursue a career in the forces and those that dissuade them from doing so....

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's just what I was getting to. You are developing expertise in the recruitment of women, which is the goal of the action plan, and you are telling me about discussion groups.

What obstacles prevent women from being interested in a career in the Canadian Forces? Have you identified any?

[BGen Lise Bourgon]

Yes. The discussion groups have helped us determine what the difference is between women and men in terms of that interest. Women are more attracted by a humanitarian and security role than by a combat role. That is one of the main factors. The discussion group on the Afghanistan mission did not help us a great deal. Canadian Forces played a slightly more aggressive role there. We are also looking at...

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Engineering, among others....

[BGen Lise Bourgon]

They are more interested in the medical or logistical aspect....

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay.

[BGen Lise Bourgon]

However, we have to work hard to increase the recruitment of women in the area of STEM—sciences, technology, engineering and mathematics—as we really need women as combat engineers.

In addition, it is said that women struggle more with the perception of the work-life balance. That is an aspect we are also working on, so that a married woman with two children can have a family while enjoying an exceptional career. Of course, stability is also an issue. There are many deployments, and women are more concerned about moves than men.

The last factor is the work culture and environment. We are still working on that. Media reports, such as the one on Operation Honour, do not help us. As I said, in a way, it is positive, as people trust the chain of command, but it is honestly not a good look. So we have to work on transforming the message in the Operation Honour report to make it positive.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'd like to ask a question quickly, as we don't have much time left. This discussion is amazing.

Can you give us concrete figures or at least an overview of your efforts in the recruitment of francophone women, especially ones from Quebec? Do you have any data on that?

[BGen Lise Bourgon]

No, sorry. I don't have any data on francophone women, but I do have some on all women. This year, we recruited 20% of women. So 2,049 women joined the Canadian Armed Forces—an increase of 19% over the previous year. That's pretty good. At the Royal Military College Saint-Jean and the Royal Military College of Canada, in Kingston, 23.4% of officer cadets are women.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I would quickly like to ask another question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

No, do it next time, when you come back.

Madame MacPherson, go ahead.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

I hope you can hear me.

Thank you very much, Brigadier-General Bourgon and Ms. O'Neill, for joining us today. This is great. I'm absolutely delighted that I get to participate in the committee today.

I have some questions to start with. I'm going to ask a few questions of Ms. O'Neill.

I know that you are mandated to provide advice to a number of ministries, such as Crown–Indigenous Relations and the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship. The ones I'm particularly interested in are under the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of International Development. Could you talk a little bit about how the WPS agenda is being integrated into these departments, and how you're being consulted and are able to provide feedback?

As a sub-question, perhaps you could talk a little bit about how you would see a feminist foreign policy going forward, and what that might look like in terms of incorporating a GBA+ analysis across the ministries you are mandated to provide advice to.

[Jacqueline O'Neill]

Thank you for those questions.

Your first one relates to how it's integrated across the department, the now consolidated department of Global Affairs Canada.

Really, the North Star essentially is our national action plan on women, peace and security. When I started the role, I spent several months speaking with people across that department as well as various others at all lengths, from locally engaged staff to ambassadors, deputy ministers, etc., and asked first of all what they knew about it and what they needed to implement more, and there was overwhelming consensus that we have the policy framework that we need. We need implementation of it and we need the implementation to be more consistent so that we are implementing it when crises emerge and it's a little more reflexive than it might be now.

In terms of the way that I'm integrated, my office itself is based at Global Affairs. There are four staff, including me. I'm very fortunate, as I mentioned, to have two secondees from DND and from the CAF, as well as a range of people I work with across different offices. While it's both an advantage and a challenge to be, as I sometimes describe myself, a kind of floating box in an organization chart, it also presents a lot of opportunities to engage in different areas. I work with regional bureaus as well as thematic bureaus to talk about the extent of our implementation and gaps that still need to be filled.

Your question related to feminist foreign policy. The government has spoken to date of our feminist foreign policy as being composed of various components, with women, peace and security and our action plan being one of them. Our feminist international assistance policy is another. “Strong, Secure, Engaged” is a third, and then our trade policy is a fourth. Those are kind of pillars of the feminist foreign policy.

In talking about it around the world and at home, I recognized that “feminist” is often a very loaded word, especially when you associate it with security and defence issues, but I find that when you unpack the concept, almost without exception, it's something that the vast majority of Canadians agree with. The way that I think about it and the way that I think the government articulates it and implements it is by recognizing that every single person has equal rights and should have an equal opportunity to access those rights, and that we are all better off when that happens, so it is looking at power structures—not just equality, but power.

You mentioned how GBA+ fits into that. Gender-based analysis-plus is a tool of analysis. It's a process through which we can identify how an issue might differently affect men or women or boys or girls or people who are in urban settings or rural settings or people with disabilities. It's only a tool for understanding. An approach of women, peace and security and our feminist foreign policy is a positive determination to create more equality and reduce the inequality that is identified through that analysis. Part of the issue, I think, is making sure that we do strong gender-based analysis-plus and then do something with that information.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Of course, that's the big issue, isn't it? It's making sure that you do something with that information.

I guess maybe that will lead me to my next question for you as well. Knowing that you have articulated some of those areas where we have had gains and where we have been able to do some good work in terms of our WPS agenda, if you had your druthers, what are the areas where you would like us to put our primary efforts right now?

[Jacqueline O'Neill]

I'd say a few things. I have a lot of druthers.

One would be to just get people aware of what the principle is. I think there are still a lot of misconceptions that women, peace and security is about saying women are inherently more peaceful than men or better than men at some things, or that women are going to be disadvantaging men in some way. It's exactly the idea we're talking about. It's reducing barriers to having equal opportunity, the idea that women in particular in areas of peace and security face a disproportionate number of barriers, so number one is just recognition of what the issue itself is and shedding some of the stereotypes associated with it.

The other thing I'd say is to have a much more customized tool. The vast majority of people across the departments that I work in really want to contribute to gender equality, and yet we're asking them to do more and more specific and technical tasks. How do you fully integrate gender-based analysis-plus into procurement processes for the Department of National Defence? What does a military gender adviser need to do? How do you advise your embassy about successful models of inclusion in a national dialogue process? How do you protect women human rights defenders? What's the data and research out there?

We were just talking about what's actually working. If I had a tool, I'd give people a lot more customized guidance for their day-to-day jobs. We talk a little bit about GBA+ and people are introduced to Security Council resolution 1325, and they're big concepts—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you very much. We have excellent questions and excellent answers.

Mr. Dowdall is next.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Good morning, Madam Chair. First, it's fantastic to be back. We haven't had too many committee meetings since I celebrated my first anniversary just a few days ago. I'm extremely excited to be here today, and I want to thank Ambassador O'Neill and Brigadier-General Bourgon for being here and shedding light on this important subject today.

My honourable colleague from Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke had a fantastic question in an earlier round, and I would like to bring it forward as well and hear the responses from both presenters today.

Basically, the women in the armed forces who are victims of sexual assault and harassment are told to report these crimes, while the male offenders are rarely punished and, in many cases, are allowed to continue serving freely alongside their victims as if nothing has happened. The female accusers are denied advancement, transferred from posts or discharged from the military altogether. It's no wonder that female recruitment has barely budged despite the efforts to increase their numbers.

How can we boost female recruitment when the hostile work environment is clearly reinforced by the chain of command?

[Jacqueline O'Neill]

I don't think it's clearly reinforced by the chain of command. I think there are some instances that are exceptionally disturbing and troubling, and I am as concerned as you are about the fact that this still exists. I think about that from a range of perspectives, including the fact that we are constantly working on how to increase the number of women in the Canadian Forces and what it means to be encouraging young Canadian women to join the armed forces who are not confident in the process.

Whenever faced with that question, I think the most important thing we can do is paint the whole picture and, as Brigadier-General Bourgon talked about, not sweep under the rug the fact that this happens, because it does. We know it does, as we are increasingly recording and documenting that it does, but we are talking about the processes that are in place, how we're dealing with this systemically, identifying areas where we're still struggling in dealing with it systemically, and being exceptionally clear about the position of leadership on this issue. I think, again, that's an area where we have had a lot of clarity. I think it would be irresponsible, reckless and disrespectful to young Canadian women to not be dealing with it seriously and not be taking it as the crisis that I think it is or as it has been dealt with. I also think we have seen a lot of positive signals and we have to continue to focus on them.

[BGen Lise Bourgon]

I will add that the well-being of our members is the most important thing in the CAF. Since Operation Honour was established, 134 people have been released from the military. That is 134 who have been dealt with because of what they did. Every time women or men come forward, it is investigated. It is looked at from A to Z. The victims are separated from the perpetrator because we don't want them to be in the same environment. There is an investigation, and justice is served. I mean, 134 people have been released. A lot of administrative measures have also been put in place. We are dealing with the situation.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you. I think all of us here at the table are proud of the fact that we're looking at ways to improve the situation to get more women involved in our peacekeeping initiatives. The question I have maybe relates to where we're headed.

The Georgetown Institute of Women, Peace and Security ranked Canada 11th among 167 countries on its 2019 Women Peace and Security Index, which was a decrease from seventh the year before, in 2018. I have a couple of questions relating to that.

What areas can Canada focus on to strengthen? Also, I know that as a key supporter of the agenda, we've invested the largest portion of money, over $17 million, to the fund. I'm just wondering what kind of dollars other countries have invested and whether or not you see future difficulties, because of COVID, in getting people to invest into this really important agenda that we're working on here today?

[Jacqueline O'Neill]

Thank you very much for the question.

To your first question about what else Canada can do to continue to strengthen its work, there are two things that have been put in place recently and that we're still experiencing the benefits from, or getting increasing benefits from, related to our national action plan. Then I'll speak to the Elsie initiative fund, which I think is the one you're referring to.

We now have nine implementing partners of the national action plan. When our first one was released in 2011, we had three. When the second one was released in 2017, we had seven, and now we have added Indigenous Services Canada and Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs. That is something I talk about, and that our department and our diplomats talk about around the world, because it's a reflection of the fact that we are not saying, “We are perfect at home and you abroad need to do the following things to be as good as we are.” The fact that we have so many departments...and several departments that are domestically focused says we view this as an issue that affects us both domestically and internationally.

The second big thing I'd say we are doing well on, and we can always continue to strengthen—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

We're going to have to cut it off there, unfortunately; otherwise not everyone will get their turn to ask you a question, and that would not be good.

Mr. Baker, go ahead.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you, Ambassador O'Neill and Brigadier-General Bourgon for being with us today. I think this is a very important discussion and I'm grateful to both of you for spending the time to be with us here today.

My question is a little bit more high-level, and I'd like to direct it to both of you, if I may.

How do you measure success in your mandate? We've talked about a lot of things in this conversation, and I suppose there's more that we could talk about, but if I had to convey to my constituents in my community in Etobicoke what it is that you do and what success looks like for both of your roles, how would you describe success? How do you measure success, and how would you say you're progressing toward that success?

[Jacqueline O'Neill]

I'll try to be quicker this time.

At the highest level, I'd say we're trying to progress to a point where half of the population doesn't have to explain why it belongs in certain conversations. We're trying to get to a point where everybody has at least the option to participate in making decisions about their own future. That includes women, girls, indigenous women, LGBTQ2S people. Everybody has the option to have decisions about their own lives not made for them by people who don't necessarily understand their priority. That's the biggest picture, I would say.

When it comes to peace and security, we know that it's a traditionally male-dominated space, and many people don't think that women belong in the military and police forces, around the table for negotiations. But if we're looking at ending a conflict by bringing together only the people who started that conflict or who fought in that conflict in the first place, how are we setting a condition for the longer term?

I'll stop there for once and go to the brigadier-general.

[BGen Lise Bourgon]

For me, success is having more women deployed on operations. The more we can increase the quantity of women we have on deployed ops, that means we have a pool at home that is available, trained and qualified. That is success.

On the leadership, we've had General Carignan, the commander for the NATO mission in Iraq, as a two-star general leading a NATO coalition. That is success. She is making a difference out there. She is representing Canada's values, our diversity and inclusion. So that's a big one.

Another one is that, when we're doing the planning and the execution of operations, we have a tool now that's integrating a gender perspective to operations. We're looking at everything we do: plans, intelligence, execution, the environment and the needs on the ground.

I want the men out there to think differently and to put on that diversity lens, that GBA lens, or those glasses, so that they can see the world more in terms of human security and less as black and white. When I say lens, those lenses are not pink. Those glasses represent all the “plus” of the GBA; they're multicoloured.

That, for me, is success, because we need more men out there to be our allies. It's super important. Women, peace and security is not a women's issue; it's an “all of us” issue.