Madam Chair, to follow on General Eyre's comments, I think what we need to do, as General Eyre said, is to start with some listening and not ordering. You can't order trust to be built and you can't order culture change. It doesn't come from NDHQ. It has to be built out in the bases and wings from the ground up.
I think we have to show evidence of change and that we have heard what the problems are, and I think move swiftly to change the reporting structure, so that complaints can be made outside the chain of command without diminishing the value of the chain of command. We do have to remember that it's critical when the Canadian Armed Forces are out doing things on behalf of Canadians and, for the National Defence employees who are not CAF members but support the Canadian Armed Forces every single day, include them in the plans. We need to understand and accept that civilian members are both victims of and perpetrators of this misbehaviour. Therefore, whatever we do going forward has to be inclusive of the entire defence team.