Thanks very much, Chair.
I want to thank my colleagues for speaking to a number of the important considerations that we should take into account for this study. I think Mr. Spengemann's interventions on the Wigston report are important. They underline that other militaries have been trying to resolve some of the same issues that we're trying to resolve here in this committee. I think it's sound advice on Mr. Spengemann's part that we strongly consider the specifics of what's in the Wigston report. There's probably a lot there that we could learn and that we could consider in applying solutions to the problem of sexual misconduct here in the Canadian Armed Forces.
I thought the interventions by my other colleagues were also quite welcome. I appreciated Mr. Bagnell's comments about the processes that are followed. There's a lot, I think, in terms of the processes that are followed that we need to learn from and clearly adjust to here in Canada.
I want to go back to an issue that I was speaking about earlier—culture. I think when I left off last time, I was talking about some specific examples cited in the Deschamps report about the kinds of treatment that women who are serving in the armed forces are often subjected to. I want to continue on that theme.
I will read from the Deschamps report, which speaks to how women deal with that in particular:
Ultimately, many women report having to develop a thick skin and to becoming desensitized to a culture of sexually inappropriate conduct. LGBTQ members also report a similarly degrading environment. Notably, while the ERA heard numerous comments about the hostile environment that results from this pervasive low-level harassment, fewer participants reported instances of quid pro quo harassment (in which an individual feels pressured to accept unwelcome sexual conduct in exchange for some workplace benefit or to avoid some detrimental action against her). The ERA found, therefore, that members of the [Canadian Armed Forces] are less likely to be faced with quid pro quo harassment than they are to be affected by an overall organizational culture that conveys demeaning and negative attitudes about the role and value of women.
Perhaps not surprisingly, male and female members of the [Canadian Armed Forces] generally reported vastly different perceptions of the occurrence of inappropriate sexual conduct. While most male participants in the Review recognized that the experiences of their female colleagues are different, many of these male interviewees did not perceive that there is pervasive inappropriate sexual conduct in the [Canadian Armed Forces]. Rather, many men perceived the treatment of women in the military to be similar to what they would experience in broader Canadian society, and some felt that women in fact fare better in the [Canadian Armed Forces] than men do. Others argued that inappropriate incidents are simply inevitable as a result of the integration of women into the [Canadian Armed Forces], or expressed the view that a certain degree of aggression is appropriate in the military. In particular, most men did not view sexual language as harassing, and thought that attempts to “police” language would be “ridiculous”; as one male participant stated, “girls that come to the Army know what to expect”.
This is just horrendous. I think it speaks to the specifics of some of the things that we heard from victims, that we heard from women, and that some of our witnesses have spoken to.
The report continues:
While women of a higher rank seemingly do not suffer as much from the sexualized environment, the ERA found that this is largely because members appear to internalize the prevailing sexualized culture as they move up through the organization. Whether to achieve their career goals or as a coping mechanism, female NCOs and higher-ranking women tend to adapt their own conduct [Technical difficulty—Editor] the organization.
What I'm trying to underline here for our colleagues is the tremendous number of coping mechanisms that are put in place by women according to the Deschamps report and echoed by our witnesses.
I'm going to leave it there, Chair.