National Defence Committee on April 30th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Yes, it does.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

No, it doesn't. It's a point of order. It stops the clock.

Madam Chair, I'll say this. You know, Ms. Telford says she doesn't know what was in the evidence, yet she's already made the decision that this allegation didn't involve a safety issue. We know from testimony from Elder Marques, who was here, that they spoke. As Ms. Telford earlier said, they spoke many times about this issue. By May 5 there were lots of emails talking about this as sexual harassment.

Again, Ms. Telford, based upon all the evidence that we already have, why didn't you inform the Prime Minister?

[Katie Telford]

Once again, Madam Chair, through you, I would just like to correct the member. I did not make a decision that this was not a safety issue. That was a question that I asked. That was something I wanted assurance about, because it was out of concern; it was that I didn't know anything else.

Actually, these were the actions that I was taking to try to ensure that a complainant was protected, followed up on, supported in whatever ways I had the ability to find—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

But that never happened.

[Katie Telford]

—that did not include my becoming the investigator in this. That would have been entirely inappropriate for political staff or politicians of this government to have started an investigation—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

But we know that there was no investigation.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Look, if we allow all these points of order—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Go ahead.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

—and if we allow the witness—

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

On a point of order, Madam Chair.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

—to continue to just talk out the clock—

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Go ahead, Mr. Baker.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Bezan once again is interrupting the witness in her responses to our questions. Ms. Telford is trying to respond. I would ask you to direct Mr. Bezan to allow her to answer so that I can hear her responses, the folks at home can hear the responses, and the interpreters, who are interpreting for us, can do their work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Thank you, Mr. Baker.

We will go back to you, Mr. Bezan.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Telford, how many times a day would you meet with the Prime Minister?

[Katie Telford]

It entirely depends on the day.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

How many times would the Privy Council clerk meet with the Prime Minister on issues on a regular type of day?

[Katie Telford]

It very much depends on the day. I can tell you that during the pandemic, which we are currently still very much in, every day is different.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

But both the Privy Council Office clerk, as well as you as chief of staff, have unfettered access to the Prime Minister.

There are many times, I suspect, that you talk about national defence issues, including with regard to General Vance. Why, at any one of those points in time, didn't you brief the Prime Minister on these allegations? Whether there's a sexual context or not, there are allegations against the chief of the defence staff. Shouldn't the Prime Minister have known about those allegations?

[Katie Telford]

Madam Chair, the member refers to them as plural allegations now, too.

I just want to remind all of you that at the time we were told about a complaint that we knew nothing about, we acted on immediately. We took it seriously because we didn't know what it was about and we wanted to take it seriously. Having learned in March 2021, I think, what it was about, I think it's further evidence as to why it's important to always take these complaints as seriously as you can, and to do as much as you can, which is what we did in March 2018—

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I would think, though—

[Katie Telford]

—and unfortunately we couldn't find out any further information at the time.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I think at that point—