National Defence Committee on Nov. 16th, 2020

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Madam Chair, thank you very much.

I'd like to start by thanking our witnesses, our team of senior Canadian Forces officers, for being with us today and for their distinguished service, and through them, I'd like to also thank the women and men in uniform who are serving alongside them, with particular gratitude for the work the Canadian Forces are doing in helping us get through the pandemic.

I'd like to start with a question to take us back to some earlier discussions on training, and perhaps start with Major-General Cadieu.

To what extent is pandemic response training part of the Canadian Forces training package at the moment, from the very basic first steps, basic training, up to more advanced training in senior ranks? To the extent there are gaps, what would your vision be in strengthening that training?

[MGen Trevor Cadieu]

The role, the mission, of the Canadian Armed Forces, of course, is to defend Canada and Canadians against all threats. So as our Canadian Armed Forces members progress through their training, they need to be prepared for up to and including general purpose combat operations, which, generally speaking, from a military perspective, cover an entire spectrum of activities that members might be called upon to do.

In the course of that training, they will be exposed to and will receive tools that can be applied in a domestic setting or paradigm such as what we have seen for Operation Laser, the Canadian Armed Forces response to the COVID-19 situation. For example, when our Canadian Armed Forces members deploy on operations abroad, they have to deal with local populations, with other government agencies and departments and partners. They are often called upon to deliver humanitarian aid and provide logistics and transportation support.

So as part of that general purpose combat training, they receive a suite of tools that can be applied for activities such as this.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

Looking at the deployability of Canadian Forces in the context of the pandemic perhaps continuing for the longer term, is guidance coming our way from NATO and the UN with respect to deployments in peace operations, and to the extent that this is still at the beginning, is there room for Canada and specifically the Canadian Forces to have input into such frameworks?

[MGen Trevor Cadieu]

Of course, as you indicate, globally we are all learning as we go through this pandemic together how it's going to evolve and what the potential implications for our allies and partnerships might be.

What I will say is that with strength, once again, after initially contracting the force in order to privilege support to Canadians, which remains in place, we have been able to resume almost all of our operations in support of our allies, including NATO and the United Nations forces deployed abroad. We have approximately 2,000 Canadian Armed Forces members deployed on approximately 20 missions around the globe.

We will continue to watch for the activities and operations that are going to be contemplated in relation to the pandemic specifically. If there's an opportunity for the Canadian Armed Forces to be engaged, our chief of the defence staff will provide advice to our minister.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to ask a question about the reserves, specifically reserve units that are located in urban centres. To what extent has the pandemic impacted their work, their training and their readiness?

[MGen Trevor Cadieu]

The reserves in the Canadian Armed Forces, Madam Chair, have featured prominently in our response as part of Operation Laser. In the first wave, when it was unclear how much of the Canadian Armed Forces would be required to be mobilized to support Canadians, reservists were offered full-time service, what we refer to as class C service. Almost 7,000 reservists took that call, and they played a very fundamental role in a number of our operations, including long-term care support, especially in the province of Ontario.

To answer your question, we have certainly seen a number of reservists answering the call to support Canada in its time of need. They've had to undergo the same preparations and training as their regular force counterparts, in terms of using personal protective equipment; observing, respecting and enforcing public health measures; and integrating into operations. Any reservist who integrates into an Operation Laser function or operation will undergo the same preparations as their regular force counterparts.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

First, I would like to advise the committee that Mr. Troy Cosby, ADM, materiel, has joined us at this time.

Did you have a statement you wanted to make, ADM Crosby?

[Troy Crosby, Assistant Deputy Minister, Materiel Group, Department of National Defence]

No. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Okay. Thank you very much.

We will go on to Mr. Dowdall, please.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Good afternoon, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses as well for their presentations, and certainly all of the men and women of our Canadian Armed Forces. I am fortunate to have a military base in my riding in Simcoe—Grey. At Base Borden, I have the opportunity to thank many of them in person.

I have a couple of questions pertaining to the base. On April 5, The Globe and Mail reported that Canadian Forces Base Borden would be the headquarters for the joint force central fight against COVID-19.

The minister did confront me a little bit later. I wish it was earlier because I was hearing all kinds of concerns from local residents about military seeming to be coming into a little town. I was getting lots of concerns as people were stressed about the pandemic and wondering what it meant. Maybe further on, the ministries could reach out to the local MP and give them a heads-up. That would certainly be appreciated.

They said that approximately 400 troops were stationed at Base Borden for Operation Laser. What was the actual number?

[MGen Trevor Cadieu]

I will have to get back to you with a written response on the specific number of Canadian Armed Forces troops that were readied in support of Operation Laser at Borden.

What I would say is that base, as well as many others throughout the country, has played a pivotal role in allowing our Canadian Armed Forces members to stage and conduct operations in support of Canadians.

As much as is possible, we've tried to undertake every measure to ensure that local authorities are kept abreast of Canadian Armed Forces activities and what they might mean to the local communities in the regions they are serving.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you very much for that answer.

I have a follow-up, if I might. I'm sure you had isolation protocols at that particular base. Can you elaborate on them?

Earlier we talked, and I think it's fantastic that you've had this partnership for 20 years with the local hospitals. We have two that would be in our catchment area, RVH and Stevenson Memorial, which work hand and hand. Number one, are they kept abreast of all of the latest happenings as we get more military personnel in place? Number two, are you reaching out as well to local municipalities?

I know for a fact that Angus is part of it now, and there is going to be a COVID testing centre. Is there a COVID testing centre on base for your personnel, or our military, at this time? If not, do you work in conjunction to move these items forward?

[MGen Trevor Cadieu]

I'll turn it over to the surgeon general to talk about how the Canadian Armed Forces is organized for COVID testing. In terms of your question about engagement with local communities, our chief of the defence staff expects his base commanders to maintain that robust communication and relationships with their local and regional interlocutors. That dialogue is happening continuously between uniformed leaders and the community leaders with whom they serve.

Our chief of the defence staff certainly expects his subordinate commanders to keep local officials apprised of developments in the Canadian Armed Forces' response as part of Operation Laser and any significant activities that might have an impact on the communities they're serving in.

The surgeon general will be able to comment on how we're organized for COVID testing.

[MGen Marc Bilodeau]

We are growing our integral capability for testing in the Canadian Armed Forces. We have a growing amount of testing equipment that we're starting to distribute on our bases and wings, on our ships in some of our deployments.

I don't have the exact information, though, as to whether we have one type of equipment or not at Borden, but this is certainly something that we can get back to you on in writing after today's discussion.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to know if all of the bases have testing ability for our military personnel, because if not, I think they certainly have to to buddy up with someone to make sure those options are available and that they have the opportunity to test and get quick results. I think that's very important.

I want to thank you too about the connection with the local hospitals. They are often frustrated with the fact that some of the local hospitals come up with some suggestions and perhaps don't go back. It could definitely be part of the problem we heard earlier—a lack of funding through the government to upgrade some of those problems out there, whether it be for mental health or what have you, because we don't have 24-7 access in many of our hospitals. I don't know if you have a comment on that side of it.

[MGen Trevor Cadieu]

I don't have a specific comment on that other than to maintain our commitment to continue that active engagement between uniformed leaders and community leaders they're serving with across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

We'll move on to Mr. Baker, please.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Major-General Cadieu, Major-General Bilodeau, Rear-Admiral Patterson, Mr. Crosby, thank you very much for being here to present to us and to answer questions from the defence committee today.

In my community of Etobicoke Centre, we are mourning the loss of 42 residents to COVID-19 at the Eatonville long-term care centre. As devastating as this is, the death toll would have been much higher if it had not been for the members of the Canadian Armed Forces who were deployed there to care for people in my community, my constituents.

On behalf of my constituents and my community I'd like to start by thanking the Canadian Armed Forces for serving in our long-term care homes. I would particularly like to thank, and I would ask you to pass along my thanks if possible, to the Canadian Armed Forces members who cared for and who saved the lives of my constituents in Etobicoke Centre.

I would also like to thank you for something else. In May, the Canadian Armed Forces prepared a report describing horrific and abusive conditions at the five long-term care homes in Ontario where they were posted at the time. The horrific allegations described in that report, in my view, should alarm every single Canadian. The stories, the examples of mistreatment and abuse, described by the soldiers stationed at these homes I think are simply unacceptable, and I think all Canadians find them unacceptable.

As we rightly focus on the numbers and the statistics and some of the events, I think it's also important that we remember that behind these examples are human beings and our fellow citizens. They were mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters. They were Canadians and they deserved better.

As a result of your report, four other MPs and I, who represent the constituencies in Ontario in which the CAF was serving in long-term care, wrote to Premier Ford and Prime Minister Trudeau calling for a number of steps, including national standards for long-term care. Many other caucus colleagues joined that call. In the Speech from the Throne the government announced that it would be working with the provinces to do just that, to establish national standards for long-term care.

On behalf of my community I would like to thank the Canadian Armed Forces for caring for and saving the lives of my constituents in Etobicoke Centre. I would also like to thank the members of the Canadian Armed Forces for documenting what they discovered. This has enabled awareness, which has led to action and led to government committing to establishing national standards. When this is done I think this will make a difference for seniors for generations to come.

My thanks to you and all the members of the Canadian Armed Forces who were involved in Operation Laser.

Could you share with us some of the most troubling conditions that the Canadian Armed Forces discovered in our long-term care homes?

[MGen Trevor Cadieu]

I will turn it over to our commander of Canadian health services here shortly. We will certainly convey your gratitude to Canadian Armed Forces members who served in those facilities.

Before I hand over to Admiral Patterson and our surgeon general, I would just reinforce that, in addition to our commitment, our obligation to report what we see, which you should expect of your Canadian Armed Forces members at all occasions, is a healthy bias to action. Immediately upon discovering issues, Canadian Armed Forces members intervened to correct any activities and work alongside civilian colleagues to provide compassion and care to vulnerable Canadians.

I'll turn it over now to Admiral Patterson to comment on some of the additional issues that were discovered in long-term care facilities.

[RAdm Rebecca Patterson]

Just to piggyback on what General Cadieu has said, while there was no specific issue typical of all of the different installations in Ontario, we can certainly say, if I were to globalize it, that it was adherence to policies to help ensure that our most vulnerable residents were properly cared for— and, of course, within the actual report as you know, there are very specific examples, but in general, it was adherence to policies.

I think I could also point out the fact that we did go into those homes that were basically in crisis and at the invitation of the provincial government. We worked very, very closely in partnership with both the management and the leadership of the homes, as well as with the government. I can tell you that, when we were pointing out issues with policies or with standard of care delivery, everybody was very receptive to making the changes that were necessary, but with that, you also asked about other issues.

We talk about standards of care and, as you know, we were there to support the local facilities, and also, as military professionals, to achieve the mission that was set out for us. As well, as health care professionals, we have obligations to point out cases where there may be harm to our residents.

Again, the four themes we had a look at were lack of adherence to policies, inadequate staffing or even training of the care providers within the facility, and some challenges in the infrastructure.

Surgeon General, would you like to add anything else?

[MGen Marc Bilodeau]

Yes. Just to sum up, Madam Chair, it comes down to patient safety again, and staff safety. I think those are the common themes and the reason why we had to document, to intervene and to make sure that those concerns were being addressed.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karen McCrimmon]

Go ahead, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am happy to hear that national standards are not what's missing; it is actually health transfers, which provincial governments, including Quebec's, have long been calling for. Nevertheless, I will not play politics in committee. That's not why we are here.

A lot of tough decisions had to be made in many areas, and the CAF was not spared. In the CAF's case, several important training courses were impacted. Career advancement courses were cancelled or postponed, or accommodated only a limited number of participants. That means fewer soldiers, fewer non-commissioned officers and fewer commissioned officers were trained. They, in turn, could have provided training to others.

How do these delays impact the readiness of the armed forces?