National Defence Committee on April 29th, 2024

[Guennadi Kroupnik]

Currently, again, as we mentioned in the introduction, the RADARSAT Constellation Mission is one of those. RADARSAT-2 is another one.

As well, we're working with the Department of National Defence and their research arm, DRDC, on two micro-satellites. One of them, NEOSSat, is still being operated by the CSA. We share the tasking of that satellite fifty-fifty between science and defence research. The second one, M3MSat, is currently operated by private entities. Before 2021, it was operated on behalf of DND by the CSA.

As well, CSA is buying commercial AAS data for the Government of Canada. DND is one of the departments that benefits from that commercial data purchase.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

You mentioned DRDC—Defence Research Development Canada. How much collaboration does the CSA have with DRDC? Does it go beyond that one platform you're talking about, or is it multiple platforms?

[Guennadi Kroupnik]

With DRDC, under a memorandum of understanding between the Canadian Space Agency and the Department of National Defence, we have a so-called accord committee, which coordinates research and development for civil and defence purposes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

As we look into the future and into the potential weaponization of space, which would impact the mission of the CSA, what action is the agency taking to protect those assets, or what collaboration are you undertaking with the Department of National Defence?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Answer very briefly, please.

[Guennadi Kroupnik]

The Department of National Defence is responsible for protection. We are coordinating our planning activities with them.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Bezan.

Mr. Fillmore, you have the final four minutes.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you, Chair.

We've discussed at various times today, with you and with the previous panel, the general notion of good behaviour in space. It's sometimes referred to as “the norms of conduct in space”. One of the things we've talked about is the threat of space debris, whether it's from scientific endeavours or from bad actors blowing things up or that kind of thing.

What is the interface with the Canadian Space Agency, or what role can the agency play in negotiating treaties with other countries that are exploring space?

[Maja Djukic]

Within the civil space program, the Canadian Space Agency has a number of active bilateral agreements with nations with which we work closely. NASA, obviously, would be one of our largest partners, and we have an agreement with them. We've also had a long-standing co-operation agreement with the European Space Agency, since 1979. In fact, it's going to be the 45th anniversary this year of the co-operation agreement with the European Space Agency.

We also have some more recent newcomers to the space world, agencies with whom we share common interests. Recently in Colorado Springs we expanded our collaboration with the UK Space Agency. We collaborate with the Australians, with New Zealand and with individual nations in Europe. We have a long-standing collaboration with the French and a couple of programs with them as well, and with the Italians and Germans. We have broad engagement with a number of key space partners, all in the domain of civil space.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Okay. Thank you for that.

Go ahead, sir.

[Guennadi Kroupnik]

If I can add to that very briefly, we also work with the UN COPUOS with other nations on developing international guidelines and rules of good behaviour. As well, we are part of the inter-agency debris mitigation committee, where we are working with other nations. By the way, Russia and China are part of that committee.

As well, on our side, the CSA is contributing to the space situational awareness data through the NEOSSat satellite. We also have developed a sophisticated analytical tool called “CRAMS”. It's a conjunction risk assessment and mitigation tool that assesses probabilities of collisions in space and works out recommendations for potential manoeuvring for satellites to avoid such collisions.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Does that mean that you or someone is tracking the debris?

[Guennadi Kroupnik]

We rely on data provided by international partners.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Okay.

You mentioned Russia and China a moment ago, which leads me to a question. Are there any gaps in treaties on norms of conduct that the committee should be aware of? On this, are there countries with which we still have some work to do?

[Maja Djukic]

With Russia and China, we would engage through the multilateral fora. In those cases, Canada lines up with its key allies so that we coordinate. As the generals were explaining previously, we coordinate our engagements in those committees.

I guess I would say that you want to be engaged. Communication is never a bad thing. Communicating even with your adversaries is a good thing. You want to know what is going on, and these multilateral fora allow for that type of conversation.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Okay. Thank you for that.

I think I might have a minute—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

No, you don't.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

I do not have a minute.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

No.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

All right. Thank you very much.

I tried to brainwash you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Yes. It's only four minutes, not five. Thank you, Mr. Fillmore.

I want to thank both of you for your presence here today. We're just beginning our study. The information that you have given us will be very informative in our ongoing study. Thank you for your attendance.

With that, colleagues, the meeting is adjourned.