In a minute, yes.
Evidence of meeting #102 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was satellites.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #102 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was satellites.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
You've done really well, because your other comments were the same.
I drove past the Russian embassy last night on Charlotte Street with my son and I pointed it out. My son said, why do they still have an embassy here? I said, because it's the only way you keep communicating with people to solve problems. You must keep the lines of communication open.
International collaboration is fundamental, and we will return to a normal and stable environment in space if we have faith in humanity to do that. NorthStar's tools and other people's activities in this area are fundamental to that. Military activity, the same as civil activity, has a role to play in securing a safe environment.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
May 6th, 2024 / 12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Thanks, Chair.
I have a set of questions for both witnesses.
First to Maritime Launch, it's too bad that you didn't exist and that you weren't up and running a number of years ago, because one of the Canadian competitors for SpaceX lost out in part because they wanted to launch from a Canadian launch station, and they missed that opportunity. They would have beaten out, and maybe we'd have something different from Starlink, everything tied to SpaceX and some of the other stuff if that had happened.
Specifically to you, I want you to get on the record on that military side. I get that there are certain capabilities. You do have a connection with, obviously, CAF and DND. What specific capabilities is Canada dependent upon or will be dependent upon by having our own domestic launch? Can you get that clearly, that specific military context?
12:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Maritime Launch Services Inc.
Probably the key is earth observation. That's what it's all about with most of these satellites going into orbit, looking down. It's not about looking up.
It's the ability of those satellites to monitor activities on the ground, whether it's GHG or movement, as we've seen in Ukraine in the monitoring that we've been doing there, and our ability to do that ourselves unhindered.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Ms. Lalonde brought up the Arctic side, and obviously I think that's a huge advantage that can't be underestimated, the polar launches that we can have.
In a similar theme, to you, Mr. Bain with NorthStar, I understand fully what you're trying to do and the need for it, but convince Canadians and governments to put the necessary resources into all of these different space aspects that we need? In particular, what value do you bring to the table for an industry or another company similar to what you're proposing? What is the impact on and the benefit to not only military capabilities for Canada and our allies, but to industry if these collisions happened? Ultimately that's the challenge that governments are facing right now with limited money. How do we make Canadians understand that this is the value added by preventing these collisions, tracking the debris, etc.?
12:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
On a general note, I don't like to refer to it as space economy or the economy, because it's all the economy. The economy in space is the economy. Canada must maintain its position to be competitive in that market—that's an argument. It's about people keeping their jobs. It's about education, and it's about a cycle of training people, keeping people and building a sound economic base here in Canada and maintaining that.
I think it's pretty simple for Canadians to understand that we don't do anything. In the 1970s, we put up the GPS satellites, and nobody knew what to do with them. Now you can't do anything without them. That's what space is. It's fundamental to your life. There's nothing you can do on a given day, between a financial transaction at the bank or getting something delivered to your house to eat, that doesn't go through a system that involves a satellite. They're fundamental to the fabric, and very importantly, there's no backward compatibility. We can't go back to the old system of communicating, to the old system of navigating, to dial-up phones. It doesn't work. We're dependent on the space satellite systems, so let's make sure they stay there. The only way to do that is be a good environmentalist and protect the environment.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Tied to that, with the space companies that are launching right now—and this could go to either one of you, but I imagine maybe more to you, Mr. Bain—is Canada demanding, for anything that we're launching here domestically or that is a Canadian nexus or partner in the international community, that any new launches have end-of-life cycle planned into them with a mandatory degrade so that we're not leaving crap up there, for lack of a better word?
12:55 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Maritime Launch Services Inc.
Yes, that initiative is certainly afoot, but it's not codified in any sort of way. There are new technology developments, mission extension kits for upper stages, for example, to be able to go and deploy and do other things, remove satellites from orbit or provide a fuelling platform to extend the life of satellites so that you don't have to keep launching more. There's that kind of thing.
12:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
The mechanisms that you can pull on are our own domestic policy but also the International Telecommunications Union in assigning frequency as though it may seem abstract. In order to get frequency, you should comply with certain performance criteria in terms of de-orbiting and removal. There are a lot of good guidelines involved in that.
At the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs, Aarti Holla-Maini, the director, is very active in making sure that global policy goes towards making sure that you don't launch before you have a set policy. Like we have “Call before you dig”, I say, “Think before you launch”.
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Mr. Ruff.
This is the defence committee, and we've heard all kinds of testimony that we're a little late and a dollar short in our involvement in space. It seems to me that the vulnerabilities from being dependent upon operatives that are outside the country are pretty abundant. I'm sure Ukrainians get a little nervous, when they're dependent upon Elon Musk, as to whether they get or don't get their signals. Similarly, the geopolitics of the United States make one a little nervous about not having the ability to either launch or to do what you do, Mr. Bain. I don't think that message has sunk in with either the political class or Canadians writ large, so sketch out for us what military and security vulnerabilities we leave ourselves open to by not being as involved as we should be.
I'll start with you, Mr. Matier, and then go to Mr. Bain.
1 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Maritime Launch Services Inc.
It's related to the recognition by the other Five Eyes countries that are stepping up. They are recognizing that vulnerability they have right now. Whether it's the U.K., Australia, New Zealand, plus two, even, these other countries are actively engaging to bring rocket-launch capability. Even if they're in the wrong place—the wrong side of the pond, as it were—they're trying to get something in place so they will have that ability to provide that backup capability.
It is a scary world down there. I bring my U.S. passport with me so I can speak openly about my feelings about the U.S. and that potential disruption, if you will, because of the politics there and where things stand. It is a scary world we're living in. We really do need to get people's attention. When I look across the border, as a Canadian looking south to the U.S., it's like watching a train wreck going on, and not having access to that launch capability there on a day in and day out basis can be really fundamentally flawed...to just the kinds of things that he's talking about—going to an ATM or going to buy tickets to a football or hockey game. It's the cause and effect that I don't think is really well understood.
1 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
To paint a picture for you, in every threat there is an opportunity. You identified and acknowledged there's a tremendous threat. I heard it in previous testimonies. I listened to the videos in advance. There is a tremendous threat: It's an opportunity, and we must take that as an opportunity.
Henry David Thoreau said that the world is our canvas for our imaginations, so we need to get our imaginations in gear and move forward without restricting ourselves on what we think, “The way we used to do it is the way we need to do it now.” Take a page out of Steve Jobs's book. Why are we doing it this way? It's the way we've always done it. We need to stop that. We need to create new ways, new policies, and we need to embrace.... We need to err on the side of leaning in instead of on the side of, “Well, we need to study that.” If I had a dollar for every time somebody told me I needed to slow down and be more patient, I wouldn't have $140 million because I went and raised money anyway.
The answer is Canada must, if it wants to be a leader in space, lean in on its initiative. Lean in, listen and act outside its typical comfort zone or what policy used to say. That's why I asked and pushed, and so it's come through as a space council, with Space Canada aboard. We must have a national space council. We must have a policy, move quickly and be clear in our objectives. We must leave this planet—because what we do in this life echoes in eternity—for the future generations so they can have access to what I had access to, watching Neil Armstrong walk down the ladder. They don't have that, and they need it: It's our responsibility to make space safer.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you.
That's a good ending for our session.
Colleagues, we'll meet you on Wednesday afternoon, subject to the votes.
The meeting is adjourned.