Evidence of meeting #102 for National Defence in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was satellites.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
Senior Vice President of Sales, Canada, Telesat
I think it's really going to be forum to exchange information on threats relating to space operations.
For us, if we see anything that we feel is threatening either our current satellites or our future constellation, we will share that with DND. Likewise, whatever information they feel is appropriate to share, they will.
Hopefully, we can talk about some best practices and innovative ways to protect our fleet and telecommunication services just generally.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you.
Unfortunately, we have to bring this hour to a close. I would have preferred a more relaxed atmosphere, where I'm not running such a hard clock, but it is what is.
Colleagues, I would say that all of the conversations we've had about this have been very fascinating, and we may think of expanding this study.
With that, I want to thank each of you for your presence and your patience with us. You've been a significant contributor to our study.
Colleagues, I will ask the witnesses to leave so that they can be replaced with the new ones.
We'll suspend for a minute or two while that happens.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
We will bring this meeting back to order.
We have with us for our second hour from Maritime Launch Services, Stephen Matier, who is the president and chief executive officer. From NorthStar Earth and Space, we have Stewart Bain, who is the CEO and co-founder.
With that, I'll ask Mr. Matier for his opening five-minute statement, please.
12:05 p.m.
Stephen Matier President and Chief Executive Officer, Maritime Launch Services Inc.
Thank you very much.
I appreciate the opportunity to be here, Mr. Chair and honourable members of the Standing Committee on National Defence.
My name is Stephen Matier. I'm the founder, president and CEO of Maritime Launch. We're headquartered in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
I'm honoured to be here today to address the House of Commons Standing Committee on National Defence regarding the current state of Canadian space defence capabilities and programs, including the impact of advancements in space on Canada's sovereignty and national security. The perspective and focus that I will bring to this discussion is related to the crucial need to have assured access to space for Canada through the development of domestic launch capability and its significance to Canada's national defence.
If I may, I'll take a moment or two to give you a brief on my background and what brings me here.
I have 35 years of experience in the space launch industry. My career has been dedicated to advancing space exploration and ensuring mission safety. I've had the privilege of leading teams at the NASA White Sands Test Facility, where I worked on the space shuttle program and was awarded the esteemed astronauts' Silver Snoopy award and the Space Flight Awareness award for continued commitment to safety in human space flight. Following my tenure at NASA, I transitioned into consulting, focusing on spaceport development in the U.S. and internationally, supporting the regulation, development and operation of numerous sites, including at Spaceport America, Space Florida and others.
Drawing on my expertise, I was commissioned by a renowned launch company to explore potential locations for spaceport operations in North America, where most of the globe's satellites are manufactured. Through extensive research and analysis, it became evident that Nova Scotia, specifically near the town of Canso, offered unparalleled advantages for Canada's first commercial spaceport, Spaceport Nova Scotia.
Our geographic positioning in Nova Scotia provides an optimal launch site for our clients to place their satellites into the desired orbits by launching south and/or east over the Atlantic Ocean. This range of trajectories is highly desirable to these clients, and it is not easily replicated anywhere else in the North America. Spaceport Nova Scotia can place satellites exactly where satellite operators need them to be for global broadband connections, near-earth imaging, security services, etc.
We expect the construction alone to contribute $171 million to Canada's GDP and boost employment by an annual average of 1,600 full-time jobs across Canada, with 748 of those within Nova Scotia. Once operations are fully ramped up, we expect it will add around $300 million to Canada's GDP annually, boost revenue to governments by more than $100 million and create close to 1,000 full-time jobs across Canada.
Developing Canadian launch capability is an economic opportunity that we can't afford to miss, but there is another key factor that raises the importance even more and is my reason for being here today. That is the importance of domestic launch capability to Canada's national defence strategy.
Canada depends on the performance of its own technologies in space in our everyday life. We rely on satellite technologies for communication, surveillance, reconnaissance, navigation, farming, greenhouse gas and weather monitoring, etc., but we've always relied on other countries for launch. Given the turbulent world we live in, with threats and opportunities in space, there is a clear imperative for domestic launch infrastructure. Coupling this with the rapid growth of the commercial space sector, as well as the saturation of existing launch capabilities in other countries, specifically the United States, the necessity for our own launch capability has become a vital piece of transportation infrastructure. If the launch sites we have used internationally over the decades are overloaded or are disabled for any extended period of time, we would not have any means to deploy our technologies. Our global partners are looking for us to be there for them as well. Our location in North America is unique.
Orbital space launch is the missing piece.
In January 2023, Maritime Launch was extremely pleased to attend the Government of Canada's announcement to enable commercial launch at the Canadian Space Agency. This announcement committed to modernizing Canada's launch regulations.
We also learned recently that the Government of Canada is finalizing negotiations on a technology safeguard agreement with the United States. This agreement is critical to the advancement of launch capability in Canada, as its approval will allow for access to mature U.S. launch technology and, importantly, for U.S. satellites to be able to launch from Canadian soil.
Not only does this bring direct foreign investment into the Maritimes; it also provides for the controls to be able to support the joint interests of secured access to space for our joint North American defence. Economic opportunity is the first, national security is the second and alliance strengthening is the third major reason.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Mr. Matier. I apologize for having to rush you.
Mr. Bain, you have five minutes, please.
12:10 p.m.
Stewart Bain Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and distinguished members of this Standing Committee on National Defence. It is my honour and pleasure to testify before you today in support of your work on the state of Canadian defence space capabilities.
Today, I am here as the founder and CEO of NorthStar Earth and Space. I was born and raised in Montreal. I am an aerospace engineer and began my career in the space sector here in Ottawa, in the late 1980s. At that time, I was working on the RADARSAT mission for CAL Corporation, which became MDA Space, in Montreal, and Honeywell, in Ottawa. Since then, my work has taken me all over the world many times to pursue innovative business opportunities and to develop new and innovative products and technologies.
Headquartered in Montreal, NorthStar is a Canadian company that has leveraged more than $140 million, primarily from Telesystem Space, an alliance between Telesystem in Montreal and Rogers in Toronto. NorthStar has strong business interests in the United States, Europe and Japan, and soon in New Zealand as well, but it will continue to represent Canadian values.
The global space economy was estimated to be $550 billion in 2023. According to the U.S. Space Foundation, this economy will be worth nearly $2 trillion U.S. by 2035, of which 80% qualifies as commercial activity. With this, I encourage the Canadian government to embrace the challenge mentioned earlier by witness Mr. Gallant and presented in a report by Deloitte of maintaining its 2% economic role in the global economy within the rapidly growing space economy to achieve $40 billion by 2040, or 40 by 40.
This is achievable and critically necessary to provide Canadians the security and economic benefits expected from, and Canada's role in, the global space economy. Broad and positive trends created in and from space are increasingly at risk, from both natural and man-made space debris and increasingly nefarious actions in space.
NorthStar's mission derives from the following question: How can the 300 billion cubic metres of space close to Earth be effectively monitored, accurately and in a timely manner?
To achieve that, NorthStar's multidisciplinary team creates products that go far beyond data collection. NorthStar builds on global advancements in data fusion, artificial intelligence and advanced modelling and simulation technologies to transform the data collected into information that is usable in real time.
Currently, space surveillance is accomplished mainly through government and commercial ground-based systems, which are inherently limited by atmospherics and geography. On January 31 of this year, NorthStar launched the first-ever constellation of space situational awareness satellites to actively survey all near-earth orbits from space. With a plan to achieve 12 satellites as soon as the end of 2025, NorthStar is years ahead of any competing system in the world. In this context, NorthStar serves as an active sentinel and early warning system capability for military and civil safety, giving all operators more timely, reliable and accurate information to assess risks and protect or manoeuvre valuable assets in a safe manner.
Recently, NorthStar was one of only two companies, from a pool of almost 60 American, to receive a contract from the U.S. national Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA, for their first-ever Space-Watch program. NorthStar is active in the U.S., Europe and Japan on many other commercial initiatives.
Commercial enterprise needs a strong signal from its domestic government about the utility of its capability. NorthStar's recent successes create a great opportunity for the Canadian government to leverage private capital and invoke the unique aspects of commercial business that the government must track to gain maximum leverage of innovative commercial space capabilities.
In closing, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony today. NorthStar welcomes any and all efforts to enhance Canada's space future. That includes Canada's defence interests, both at home and in partnerships abroad.
I look forward to your questions.
Thank you for your attention.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you to both of you.
We do have a six-minute round, but I don't think we're going to do six. We'll go to five and then hopefully in the second round we can get closer to where we should be on the second round.
Mrs. Gallant, you have five minutes.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
My questions are for NorthStar.
Were an adversary to detonate a nuclear device in low-earth orbit and knock out a satellite, how is your company equipped to track the damage from the space debris generated in the aftermath?
12:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
We've actually already done that. We've participated internationally with sprint advanced concept training, SACT, since 2019, which is organized by the Department of Commerce and the Department of Defense. NorthStar has been an active member on a volunteer basis to demonstrate our capabilities.
In November 2021, there was an anti-satellite test done by the Russians. They took out one of their own satellites and the world turned to NorthStar to track that debris.
We've already had experience doing that and we would continue to use that skill in such a circumstance.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
How prepared is Canada to deal with a nuclear detonation in space? Are you in regular contact with DND, CAF or the federal government?
12:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
How well prepared we are is dependent on how much we are monitoring the activity in space. My experience and my knowledge of that is more towards my interactions with the U.S.
If you'll permit me, I'll say that we don't have a wide field-of-view system.
To go a little technical, the way I describe NorthStar is that we are a wide field-of-view system. We see all the earth's orbits, from LEO to MEO or medium-earth orbit where the GPS satellites are, to geostationary, to cislunar, simultaneously. This capacity does not exist. We are not actually well prepared to track all activities in space generally amongst the allies.
NorthStar does maintain a relationship with the Department of National Defence here in Canada. We're looking forward to expanding on that now that our satellites are launched and our services available.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
What is the lag time between a space occurrence and the detection of any related space debris created?
12:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
If I understood the question, the debris is created instantaneously upon impact.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
How long does it take NorthStar to detect that?
12:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
You would detect it immediately if you had a sensor in place. The worst-case lag time for us would be a matter of hours. Typically, we can see something within minutes.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
What's the minimum detectable size of debris?
12:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
We can see one centimetre in low-earth orbit, seven centimetres in medium-earth orbit and 40 centimetres in geostationary orbit.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Given that Chairman Xi is overturning the world's rules-based order, how likely is it that any treaties with respect to space debris would be adhered to?
12:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
I'll try not to wax political, but I wouldn't rely on a treaty to protect my assets in space.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Does China have capabilities similar to those of NorthStar Earth and Space?
12:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
If they don't, they will have them soon.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
What is the reaction time to the occurrence of a space debris detection versus the time it takes a space asset to be aware of it?
12:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder , NorthStar Earth and Space
You're speaking of data latency. It's a great question.
We just launched four satellites. We actually need a critical mass of 12 satellites to be able to detect with the sufficient latency that fits within the specifications of minutes. You're talking about minutes or seconds.
You need more satellites monitoring more often and picking up objects multiple times during their orbital pass to get low covariance, which is the error associated with where objects are in space.
It's a digression of a question, but the exact location of objects in space is a mathematical calculation, so it takes a while to figure that out.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
I have one for our other witness.
I understand that some low-earth orbit satellites can be launched from a C-17 now. They're going towards large aircraft for launch.
Will this impact the necessity or any of the business that you have lined up with respect to your company?
12:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Maritime Launch Services Inc.
It doesn't, in that the market is so large.
As Stewart pointed to, with the size of the market now with the tens of thousands of satellites that people are intending to put into low-earth orbit to provide services to the world, we're not looking to take any sort of large work share associated with that.
Then there's the entire aspect of logistics and cost associated with a C-17 or some other transport doing it.