National Defence Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

The cover-ups by the chain of command and the department of Officer X are, of course, the latest example of barriers that survivors face. They need an independent, outside office to turn to when they're wronged in this way. They shouldn't, in my opinion, be asked to turn to the ICCM for help when they know that the chain of command is actively covering up an incident, especially from that same monitoring board that is providing advice to the chain of command.

They need the independent, external watchdog. I have a bill that aims to create that, but in the interim, CAF members and DND employees need that champion within the office of the ombudsman.

I'm concerned about the fact that during testimony, the current ombudsman, Gregory Lick, talked to us about finding his replacement. He announced his retirement. He will certainly be missed. It will take an active, robust search to find his replacement. We've been told that this replacement search hasn't started.

Given the fact that so much went on in the CAF throughout his tenure, when can we expect that process to find a new ombud to at least start?

[Bill Matthews]

I cannot give you an exact date. The work to launch the search has started, but the search has not yet been launched. There will be interim measures put in place to ensure continuity while a replacement for Mr. Lick is found.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

There have been concerns that there will be a return to previous applicants, or that there won't be a new search taking place. Is that currently the case?

[Bill Matthews]

The process in terms of how it's followed to select Mr. Lick's replacement is an appointment that is outside of my control. All I will share is that the work to launch the search for a new candidate has started and that there will be an interim measure put in place.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

The minister earlier touched on this in terms of Madame Lalonde's question on Bill C-66, which will enact Justice Arbour's recommendation 5. We know that correcting the justice system isn't just about bringing justice for so many women who were failed by the institution. In fact, we've seen so many cases recently of women having their cases stayed due to CAF delays in transferring files. Other women have reported their cases being rejected.

What is being done by the department to make amends for current and historic cases that happened before this bill will be enacted?

[Bill Matthews]

I have a couple of thoughts here, and then the vice-chief may wish to jump in.

Number one, there are lots of reasons that cases do not get transferred. The member has outlined a few of them, but there are others as well.

I'm not aware of any measures in place, beyond numerous class actions that are under way, to look backwards. This is a going-forward change that we are looking forward to implementing.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

The defence policy update signals changes to military equipment procurement. There is $10.2 billion in spending for infrastructure and maintenance and $300 million for the Canadian Forces Housing Agency.

There's no commitment on reforms to the outsourcing and contracting practices for bases for those maintenance services. UNDE and PIPSC leadership came to this committee and said that the government has no meaningful value-for-money analysis on these contracts. The Defence Construction Canada procurement practices mirror the ongoing ArriveCAN scandal. The department spent $5 billion on contracting out services instead of on public servants.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Ms. Mathyssen, you're well past your time.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay, I'll pick it up later. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

With that, colleagues, I'm reliably informed that we'll be voting at 1:06, which means that bells are at 12:36. We'll basically have a 15-minute round and then the vote on the estimates.

Mr. Falk, I'm sorry to say that you have three minutes.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, even for those three minutes.

Thank you to all of you for coming to committee and for your service to our country. Thank you very much.

I'd like to begin with Chief Xavier for a moment.

Our partnership with the Five Eyes is extremely important. I think it's benefited us, and we've been a huge benefit to them. The minister reported earlier that your department, CSE, is first in class. We're the best of the best. We're as good as it gets. Were we invited to participate in AUKUS?

[Caroline Xavier]

I want to echo exactly what the minister said, in the sense that I lead an organization where everybody comes in every day very passionate about the work they do. They give 110% on a daily basis to be able to protect Canadians.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Excuse me, but the Chair has really cut my time here.

I just want to know if we declined to participate or if we weren't invited?

[Caroline Xavier]

From a cyber perspective, we regularly work with our other eyes, all of our eyes, but in particular the U.K., the U.S. and Australia. We are ready to provide additional support in pillar 2 of AUKUS when the appropriate time comes and the government decides that it wants to do that.

I can tell you that, from a cyber perspective, we're very much a CANAUKUS. I feel that we work, from foreign cyber-operations and active cyber-operations perspectives, collectively with them. We're able to do the work that we do in defending what Canada believes is important from a partnership perspective.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Okay, so we haven't been asked.

[Caroline Xavier]

We've been asked to work with the U.K. and the U.S. on a series of foreign cyber-operations. That is the type of work we do, as well as foreign intelligence. It's linked to our mandate. We are definitely working with those eyes.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Matthews, are you prepared to table the numbers that demonstrate the 1.76% with this committee by the end of the week?

[Bill Matthews]

Certainly, Mr. Chair. Those numbers are already on the department's website, but I'm happy to share them with the committee.

I have a reminder that it's a two-part formula. There's what the department is forecasted to spend, as well as some spending by other departments. I don't know if there will be OECD projections on GDP, but those numbers are on the website, and we will share them.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

General, Mr. Bezan asked you specifically about fighter pilots. Can you tell me in general what our pilot situation is like across the air force? Do you know the numbers? How many are we short?

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

I would not be able to give you the exact numbers of pilots for each of the platforms that we have pilots for. We can certainly provide those numbers moving forward.

One big challenge we have is that as we move from some platforms to others, a transition time is required. We have to train those crews to be able to operate on the new platforms, and that puts pressure—

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Do you have adequate personnel?

[LGen Frances J. Allen]

We still require more people in the same way that the Canadian Armed Forces is short of personnel. We are short of personnel within the air force.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Falk.

Colleagues, I'm assuming the bells are going to go off shortly. Do I have your consent to proceed regardless?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.