National Defence Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

You gave me a simple answer. You said it was going to be this year. We're already in May.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Again, the delivery of munitions from those factories is limited by their production capabilities. We have come through in the DPU and in this budget, which I'm hoping you'll get an opportunity to vote for—

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I take it that you don't have a date.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

—and we're going to invest in those factories to increase their production. We now have money in the budget to offer long-term contracts to acquire those munitions.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you, Minister. You don't have a date, so we'll move on.

On what date will Canada acquire ground-based air defences for defending critical infrastructure, including our own troops in Latvia?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

First of all, a contract was signed for the troops in Latvia for ground-based air defence systems. That contract was signed about five months ago. They will be delivered when we ramp up to brigade. On the delivery schedule, and perhaps it's a question that our officials might be able to answer to give you a more precise date, I'm assured that this capability will be delivered when we go to brigade strength in 2026.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Okay, so your predecessor misled Canadians and said 14 months ago that an air defence system was “en route” to Ukraine. Earlier in your testimony today, you admitted that it is part of a back order, of a production order—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I missed your question. I thought you were talking air defence systems, the ground-to-air defence systems for Latvia.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I am, yes.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Then you brought up the NASAMS issue.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

That's right, because your government has a credibility problem, Minister, when you announce delivery or announce that something has been acquired. You had already announced, in the case of the defence system that we were procuring for Ukraine.... Your predecessor 14 months ago said it was “en route”, but we know and your testimony today is that it is not even produced yet.

Can you give us a date on which Canada will acquire the vital ground defence system and other critical infrastructure for our troops in Latvia?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

With respect to Latvia, the contracts are signed. Those munitions are now in production. We have been provided with a delivery date that coincides with our ramping up to brigade strength in 2026. There are other munitions, by the way, and other contracts that we've signed for anti-tank missiles and anti-drone systems. The ground-to-air missile defence contract is signed. The delivery schedule for those munitions is scheduled for 2026.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you.

Your DPU talks about exploring “options for modernizing our artillery”. Assuming that the NDP allows these estimates to pass, on what date will Canada receive expanded artillery platforms?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I think I can assume that you and members of your party will not vote for any defence spending, because your record speaks for itself.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

We do not support this government. We will vote non-confidence in this government at every opportunity.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Therefore, we've introduced a budget that actually provides industry with exactly what they said they required from us—investment in production and the money that provides the certainty of long-term contracts. Once this budget passes—we have already begun the process—we will enter into those negotiations with our Canadian industries. That will create Canadian jobs and increase Canadian production, and it will deliver for the Canadian Armed Forces the munitions they need.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Your DPU says that you will explore—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

That's whether you support it or not.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I support getting the troops the kit they need, Minister.

I'd like to know if these estimates contain any certainty around, or a date or funding authorization for, the replacement and modernization of our artillery.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

There's money here and in the upcoming budget that we've presented. The dates will be determined as quickly as we can pass that, so, again, although I know you're not going to vote for it, if you could just get out of the way and let us bring that forward, we'll get it passed.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

All right.

Submarines are a critical part of maritime defence. Is there anything in these estimates to replace our 40-year-old submarines?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

No, and perhaps I was unclear when we said we had some work to do with respect to submarines, but we need submarines. We've got to replace the Victoria-class fleet. They're old, they're unserviceable and they can't do the job, so we've got work to do to replace them, and that work is under way.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Kelly.

Thank you, Minister.

Madame Lalonde, you have five minutes.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much.

Good morning, Minister. It's a pleasure to have you with us.

I want to talk about two things.

The external monitor, Madame Therrien, recently released a report that illustrated some of the progress DND/CAF has made towards cultural evolution, but she notes numerous times that there is still much more work to be done, particularly in streamlining the grievance process. I have to say, Minister, we did hear in this committee about some of the barriers and the aggravating components of this grievance process.

I would like to know a little about your interpretation of this report from the external monitor. Is DND/CAF effectively equipped to deal with the shortcomings she has raised?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I'm very grateful for the report of the external monitor. She and I have had, in addition to her report, a number of conversations on her concerns about the grievance process.

On January 18 of this year, I authorized Lieutenant-General Carignan to resolve all grievances for amounts less than $25,000. That was actually the vast majority of these grievances. That's really great news. In a two-month period, Lieutenant-General Carignan reported that more than 70% of those grievances have now been resolved.

It's really important that we be as quick and efficient as possible. People have been waiting a very long time for the resolution of these matters, and because that deals with a large number of these grievances in a more appropriate and timely way, it will also enable us to dedicate resources to the more complex ones.

Again, Madame Therrien's report was very useful advice in helping us focus on the things that were important to the members. She heard very clearly what we've been hearing from the members about the level of frustration in getting these matters resolved.

I would also point out, as Madame Therrien did, that there are a number of things in our legislation, Bill C-66, with respect to the independence of judicial actors, that often form part of these grievances. Again, I would come back to this committee. When we bring that bill to this committee, there will be really important work to be done on it here, but there are things in that legislation that I think we can all agree would be very helpful to the men and women in the Canadian Armed Forces.